Nesrie
1754
He was not fired. He resigned. He has said repeatedly he chose to leave.
I think any misstep a woman who is even remotely associated to gaming is magnified. And again, this is not even close to the rudest thing I’ve seen a dev say when engaging fans. It’s not even in the top quartile.I think any misstep a woman who is even remotely associated to gaming is magnified… but when you have a magnify glass on you like that, you’re not allowed missteps like everyone else… expectation becomes perfection.
That’s a fair point.
To look at it coldbloodedly from the company’s point of view for a moment, it doesn’t really matter whether she got more attention than a man would have. They had an employee behaving badly and creating PR problems, so the employee had to go.
Edit: My point has been for a while is that, if you’re posting as an employee, you should assume you’re under a magnifying glass. Sometimes you can trip up and get away with it (and certainly more so for some people than others), but you ought to act as though everything you say will be examined closely.
End edit.
Maybe a more useful discussion is what can be done to reduce the magnifying glass on women so that they don’t have to be extra cautious. I would suggest that articles like that Polygon one are probably making the situation worse rather than better.
Nesrie
1757
ArenaNet had an option to handle this professionally and relatively quietly, simply telling the community they were looking into it or handling it. They chose not to do that. They reacted to an unprofessional response by being unprofessional themselves and decided to gaslight the situation. All of this was highlighted in the first place because women in this industry aren’t allowed any mistakes; they’re just not. One misword, one misstep, and they’re targeted; and yes, women can loose their cool and should be allowed to do that. And this is after dealing with unpleasant things on a regular basis so they are more prone to make the misstep. And again, we’re talking about a field where the relationships between fans and devs is often described as tense or abusive… and it’s not because everyone is running around being all professional with each other.
It’s just a really shitty situation that could have been deescalated a number of ways but everyone was too busy either trying to score points or accusing others of trying to score points.
What do you think was unprofessional about how ArenaNet handled this? Before the major sites started running with this, it was being handled relatively quietly. There were threads on the GW forums about what Price did. It was Price’s actions that got her fired, so this response (from ANet’s O’Brien, the manager referenced in the Polygon piece) in one of those threads about her actions seems reasonable, professional, and relevant:
Recently two of our employees failed to uphold our standards of communicating with players. Their attacks on the community were unacceptable. As a result, they’re no longer with the company.
I want to be clear that the statements they made do not reflect the views of ArenaNet at all. As a company we always strive to have a collaborative relationship with the Guild Wars community. We value your input. We make this game for you.
Mo
It’s not like it was a secret who they were talking about, but they don’t even call her out by name. She was fired for the way she represented the company, it was fitting for the company to make a statement on that.
Nesrie
1759
You think that Mike O’Brien going onto a gaming website, not just their website, but dropping that post in the middle of a forum discussion, to discuss the firing of two employees and stating they failed to uphold their standards in communicating with players and calling it an attack on the community is a professional way to handle letting an employee go?
Different circumstances, different companies.
If you believe that the firing was unjustified then you must also believe that a developer telling a customer “you are a racist bigot” when it is clearly untrue must also not warrant termination or perhaps even disciplinary action. That is not the way the real world works. If I accused a client of being a bigot with no proof then there is little doubt I would be considered for termination. If I doubled down on that bigoted claim then not only would I be terminated I may also be sued for defamation.
The only way to make this about gender rights is to believe that unjustly accusing someone of being a bigot is not actionable because a certain gender must be protected above the rights of a company to protect their image and their customers.
So long as the employee was informed first then absolutely this is a good method of damage control. It is called community outreach.
They were fired because of the way they interacted with the community. Firing them was how ArenaNet dealt with the employees, addressing the community is how they attempt to correct the damage done there. It’s right there in the response, he wants to be clear with the community that the way they behaved should not represent ArenaNet.
He’s saying it on the official Guild Wars forums in one of the relevant discussions. I’m not sure what you mean that he’s “going onto a gaming website, not just their website”.
There are exactly two other statements for ArenaNet I’ve seen, one in response to Eurogamer’s story, one in response to Polygon’s interview. They didn’t go to the media to announce the firings, they elaborated to the media when the firings turned into a hot story.
Nesrie
1763
So you do. You think having this guy drop this announcement in the middle of one of their community forums is a professional way to handle and communicate an HR decision, and you see nothing wrong with this approach or the what he specifically wrote. That’s interesting. I think it’s a symptom of why gaming has so many… issues in their industry, and I don’t know how anyone can complain about abuse and toxicity from fans when they display that kind of lack of restraint and indifference to professionalism.
I’m curious what you think a “professional” response is - understanding that silence is not an acceptable response in this context.
I also entirely reject the argument that these actions should be excused because that is "the way she feels". What a crock of shit.
I may feel that my Indian counterparts should be coolies who should be picking my tea instead of working in my office but that does not give me the right to say so. Vice versa, I also have no right to call my English counterparts Boga Bongal or Gora and react badly to their comments just because I imagine they are thinking that I should be picking their tea.
This was not only an HR decision. They didn’t jump into the community to announce that a coder was being fired for fraud after charging personal lunches to a company account. It wasn’t an artist who violated an attendance policy.
It would be ridiculous if they just dropped into the community to let them know what HR was up to all the time.
But someone who was engaging with the community did damage in that relationship ANet felt sufficient to warrant their termination. If they thought it was that serious, it would be crazy NOT to respond to the community.
So yes, I believe the communication of their actions was appropriate and professional. I do not see any problem with how that was handled.
Nesrie
1768
It’s a good think you are not speaking for me because I do not agree silence would’ve work either. Mr. O’Brien could easily make an announcement not buried in one of their forums and not used a way to continue the discussion for days maybe even weeks because he dropped it int he middle of an active discussion.
He could have made an announcement focusing mostly on his second paragraph, and handled the rest quietly.
But hey, I am sure this was the perfect outcome they wanted… they just released something right? And we’re all talking about that new content instead and not seeing the great debate and new guidelines for employees in gaming because this was all handle so well.
@Nesrie, I apologize for jumping in with another response and just kind of saying the same thing again while you’re in the middle of responding, but I thought of another way to explain where we might be seeing this differently.
I see ANet’s response to the community as a direct response to Price’s behavior. ANet’s firing of Price was also a response to her behavior. These are two related, sort of “parallel” events, but they’re both responses to Price’s actions.
I think you’re presenting this differently, that ANet’s response to the community was a direct response to their decision to fire Price, which was a direct response to Price’s behavior.
Maybe I’m wrong, but that might be a point where we’re disagreeing.
We’re having a discussion about games journalism in a games journalism thread. We’re doing exactly what this thread is for.
Professional firing is simple. You let people know you’ve let some one go, and you wish them luck on their future endeavors. Maybe make some vague statement about the reason and not draw attention to it.
Then move on.
Also, was the guy fired or not? We keep saying them for some reason.
Nesrie
1774
Uhh this is not a complaint about this discussion. this is pointing out they just released content and by and large, the discussion, in gaming in general, is not about Guild Wars 2 the game but how the company fired two employees and debating what was right or wrong about that. My guess is that is not something they actually wanted to happen whilst the other was planned.
This is how most industries handle it, as long as they didn’t step into some white supremacy mess. If they did, they usually do the not our views things but not trying to win fan points while they do it.
