Yeah, I know this question has been asked more than a few times on here already. I’ve read pretty much all the camera threads on this forum that I could find and have looked at lots of other resources around the web, but I’m still having a tough time with this decision
This will be my first SLR camera and my budget limit is somewhere around $1200 for the total package (camera, bag, memory card, additional lens if the kit one won’t cut it, not sure if there’s anything else essential to start). I’ve pretty much ruled out Canon because I didn’t find it to be very comfortable to use. I think I’ve mostly got it down to the Nikon D40 (or D40x maybe), the Nikon D80, and the Pentax K10D.
The D80 seems like a wonderful camera, but I feel like it might be a little bit out of my budget once you add all the extras into the cost. I am willing to spend more if it is really worth it, but I’m new at this and am not exactly sure how much the quality improvements of the D80 justify the cost compared to the D40.
Then we have the Pentax K10D, which is apparently comparable to the D80 but less expensive and has some nice extra features like stabalization and weatherproofing. On the downside, I’ve read that it doesn’t perform as well at high ISO settings, it is slower to process pics, and lens upgrade options are kind of limited for the Pentax brand. I’m not sure how much any of those things will affect me.
I’d love some feedback on what you folks might recommend. I’m not dead set in these 3 options, so if there’s something else you might recommend, please feel free to throw it out there.
If it’s your first DSLR, buy the cheap one. It’ll be more than good enough for you, and by the time you know what you want it to do that it doesn’t do, there’ll be better ones out anyway.
Very sound advice. With the one caveat being that you are likely going to be locked into whatever system that you buy in the first place.
You’ve made a good first step by eliminating one system for a very sound reason. Nikon and Canon are the big guys with the widest ranging systems, and so typically I would recommend one of the them to someone coming in totally fresh.
Also, the D80 isn’t a current model, just FYI. Not to say that it’s a bad camera. In fact buying used isn’t a bad idea either, if you can get one in good condition.
The K20D can be had for $623. for what that is worth. I would advise considering which lenses you want to get first. The camera body is the lowest part of the equation. Buying into Nikon begins a very expensive lense quest if you want to purchase Nikon lenses. Canon is probably second most expensive, and they have the nasty habit of making older lenses incompatible with new bodies. Pentax has more affordable lenses (but Hoya keeps jacking up the prices) and is more affordable overall, but you will compromise on overall system.
It also should matter how much you know about SLR photography to begin with and how much you want to learn. The D40 is a slight step above a point and shoot and lacks some creative controls. The D80 is a nice camera and the K10D is comparable, but has slower low light AF and slower burst speed.
I would probably also look at the used/old Canon EOS 40D market as well (since you’re a generation behind).
By the way, in Pentax’s defense, you can get a full range of lenses so not sure where people get the “I may not find a lense I need” argument with Pentax. They also make excellent prime lenses. Personally, I am just not sure about Hoya’s management of the new Pentax, so that would be more of a concern. But right now I can get just about any lense length that eveyrone else can with my trusty old K100D. Ok, I can only get an 18-250, not 18-270. Got me there.
Also consider what type of photography you want to do. Sports? People seem to prefer Canon because they are generally fastest in their price range. Higher ISO pics? People prefer Nikon. Otherwise, any other camera maker will work for you.
Just to clarify what this means for people who might think Canon goes around switching lens systems every couple of years, they switched to their current EF system in 1987. Because of the advent of autofocus.
So, you know, they haven’t switched lens systems at all in 22 years, hadn’t switched for 16 years before that, and have no announced or hinted or even speculated intention of switching anytime in the foreseeable future.
I’m pretty sure Nikon made a similar switch, although maybe you can still use the old lenses on a digital Nikon if you shoot full manual. Either way, it’s really not an issue for anyone getting their first camera.
I’ve been taking pictures since the 1970s and can still use my film slr Pentax lenses on my cameras. I can also use my old Nikon lenses on the D90, although in manual mode. Canon’s switch was a bigger deal for long time users than current ones to be sure.
Right now, I don’t know too much. I picked up the book Understanding Exposure, as it was recommended in another thread, and am doing pretty well picking up on those concepts. Other that, I know next to nothing, but I am really enjoying learning about this stuff and am eager to check out some more books and maybe take a class. What are the creative controls lacking from the D40 that I might want to have? It’s tough for me to go through the features of each to compare, since I don’t really know what kinds of things are important.
Also consider what type of photography you want to do. Sports? People seem to prefer Canon because they are generally fastest in their price range. Higher ISO pics? People prefer Nikon. Otherwise, any other camera maker will work for you.
I’m not too interested in sports photography for the moment. I think I am most interested in nature type stuff - scenery, landscapes, animals, perhaps birds.
I just noticed that other DSLR thread pop up that I hadn’t seen before (hard to search for the titles when Digital and SLR is separated). I will make my way through that one for some more ideas.
edit: Oops apparently that other thread was on the page the whole time. Sorry, would have posted this stuff in there if I’d seen it.
It’s probably unfair to classify the re-engineering Canon did to their lens mount 22 years ago a “habit”. When technology advanced to the point where microprocessors could be embedded into lenses for autofocus, aperture settings, and so on, Olympus, Minolta, and other camera manufacturers made the same choice. I think Nikon and Pentax were the lone hold outs.
Which would explain why I only own Nikon and Pentax cameras now. This isn’t a big deal, but just something potential buyers into a system should be aware of. I invest $1,000s in lenses and would be a little upset if Pentax or Nikon suddenly made that investment obsolete. At the time this occurred (as has been pointed out, 22 years ago), people who owned Canon were very upset. If you are new to photography or don’t care about such things, feel free to ignore.
Regarding Nikon, in addition to considering the D40 and the D80, take a look at:
[ul][li]D3000 - the new version of the D40/D60. I think the standard pricing is almost the same, so I’d only opt for the older models if you catch a good closeout deal. Among other things, one of the most notable upgrades is that the D3000 has 11 autofocus points compared to just 3 on the D40/60.
[/li][li]D90 - the new version of the D80, with a lot of notable upgrades (but the D80 is still a great camera). The HD video recording may or not be a big deal to you, but check out this video to see how amazing HD video from an SLR can look (though that video is from a Canon). Lots of other upgrades, too, but if you’re not sure you need all the new features I think most photographers would recommend you get a cheaper body and put the extra money into lens investments.
[/li][li]D5000 - the awkward middle child that falls somewhere between the D3000 and D90. Worth taking a look at in case it happens to be your cup of tea.[/ul]
[/li]
I have a D90 myself, the autofocus motor being the most critical selling point for my needs.
As for Pentax, they’re a great option for a new SLR user. Sure, there’s a smaller catalog of lenses to buy, but if they have the lenses you need then the lack of extra options is irrelevant. Having image stabilization in the body is a big plus, since it means that every single lens you buy will have the feature.
I’d try to think forward to the kinds of lenses you could see yourself buying in the next 5-10 years, and then shop around to compare how Nikon and Pentax fit those needs.
Finally, as you’re working out your budget, keep an eye on the various extras besides the body and lens(es) you may need or want:
[ul][li]Tripod - The cheapest ones you can scrape by with are ~$200, but a low-end decent pod + ball head will be closer to $400-600, and the good low-end equipment will start at $600-700.
[/li][li]Software - Most people instantly think of Photoshop but it’s more of a fine scalpel to take to a single photo at a time. I think some kind of larger scale photo management software is essential. Free offerings like Google’s Picasa are decent enough, but if you can see yourself investing $250 in something like Lightroom it can make your overall photography experience a lot more enjoyable.
[/li][li]Camera bag(s)
[/li][li]More comfortable strap that doesn’t advertise your camera model to the world
[/li][li]Maintenance equipment like a Giotto air blower and a lenspen
[/li][*]Classes or instructional books[/ul]
Good stuff, wonderpug. The naming of the models for some of these cameras is really friggin’ confusing. I mean, D80->D90 makes enough sense, but D60->D40->D3000??? Especially when it’s your line that’s aimed at new SLR users.
I think I’m going to go head for a camera store today to check out some of the Pentax models. I went to Best Buy yesterday to look at what they had, but no Pentax cameras were available. It kind of worries me if I’m buying into a lens system and the brand isn’t acknowledged by a major electronics chain.
I found a new D80 online for under $700 from a high-rated dealer, so if Pentax doesn’t do it for me, I am very likely going to go with that.
Also, I had no idea tripods were so expensive… yikes.
You can find plenty of tripods for sale under $100, and they’ll work fine for setting up a group photo and stuffing back in a closet, but if you try to use a cheap-o one for an actual photoshoot you’ll almost certainly get frustrated by its heavy weight, awkward controls, lack of adjustability, or worst of all, its lack of stability–because what’s the point of using it if it’s not even holding your camera still?
If you really need a budget option, the affordable Gorillapods are pretty cool. You won’t be able to achieve height without some external thing to grab onto, but if you’re fine with working with your environment when you use one they’re supposed to be extremely well built and stable.
I would also throw in printer. There is actually a pretty good rebate deal on the Canon Pixma Pro 9000 MK II and if purchased before September 30 you get $100 rebate. So a typically $450 printer effectively becomes a $350 one.
I have the slightly older Pixma Pro 9000 (non-MK II) and it is an awesome printer. Highly recommend! (though as I brought up in another thread about photography, printing at home is not at all cost effective, so don’t buy a printer for that reason).
I would never spend more than $200 on a tripod, so I guess I’ll always have a “low-end” one. I find my Manfrotto 190XPROB to be extremely stable and flexible enough for my needs. It is heavier than a fancy carbon fiber tripod, but the weight of it is lost in the noise of the rest of the gear I carry in my backpack when I am out shooting with my camera, and the tripod nicely connects to the strap on my backpack so I really don’t care about the weight much. Puny girlie-men might be a bit more sensitive about such things.
I missed this above. Pentax not being on store shelves was a management decision, thus my concern about Hoya’s management, hehe. There are multiple posts about Pentax disappearing from store chains here http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/ and you really need to scratch your head about some of this stuff. I love the Pentaxian community, but it may be time to move on.
That is why I am probably going to be putting my old Nikon lenses to work in a new D90 shortly instead of paying the Pentax k-7 premium.
