It sounds like for this specific conversation, I’m on @Becoming side (on this and Doom) with regards to “social commentary”. Gamers. I’ll never cease to be amazed, and then immediately angry at myself for being surprised.
I’m saying the opposite. You’re saying you miss the days when you could just have dumb video game plot contrivances without them being mistaken for social commentary. I was saying there’s still plenty of dumb video game plot contrivances that are never mistaken for social commentary. (Doom is just one example from the top of my head).
Before I stop cluttering the thread, my point is that I don’t see a difference between the two. They are both just shoehorned plot devices because something needs to be there.
I suppose that Spiderman using an actual place as the setting is part of the problem, but when he’s doing insane super hero stuff the whole time I don’t get this weird Twitter shit about it.
I think I’m just too old and ready for a new meteor to hit earth or something.
When I skimmed the Polygon review I rolled my eyes and thought it was dumb at first.
I started thinking that if I was reading about this on Eurogamer (my go-to gaming review site), there would be a review that completely ignored any social commentary on law enforcement (and there was), but it also wouldn’t feel out of place for someone at Eurogamer to write their own feature opinion piece separate from the review that made all the same points about policing that Maddy makes as part of her review at Polygon.
I don’t know if I can really articulate why it feels appropriate to me to talk about policing in Spider-Man, but less so to incorporate it into the review. Maybe it feels that way because it feels like the author bringing the context of a contemporary social issue into a game that wasn’t intended to grapple with it? I don’t think that should be off limits in talking and writing about games, but it also feels strange in a review. Maybe that just leaves us stuck chasing the mythical “objective review”. I don’t know.
Anyway, that’s where I land—half-examined confusion about what I want to see in a review.
I would have agreed with you in earlier days. But triple-A games these days have such detailed scripts delivered by professional actors motion captured and replicated within the games. I have a tough time mentally putting that in the same buckets as older games that weren’t made that way. These modern games, I just can’t give them the same kind of mental pass. I just have a hard time reconciling that you go through all that, but you don’t put thought into the script and don’t have the involvements of police, etc. set in a real city thought and put there on purpose?
I can’t speak to this particular example anyway, since I haven’t played the game yet, but to echo Tom’s review of Modern Warfare 2, you’re going to have animations of innocent people panicing and dying in “No Russian”, and you’re going to put it in a mission after the one where you’re jumping 100 feet in a snow mobile? Yes, it’s trying to be serious, yes it’s video game contrivance, and because it’s not giving the serious subject the actual serious thought it deserves, it’s disgusting. Once you have the tools in your toolbox to look and feel realistic, you have to take seriously the writing, the tone, what goes before and what goes after, and what emotions you’re trying to convey and what messages you’re trying to send.
Reviews are subjective, so I don’t find it unreasonable that someone might include a critique of that element of the game, but in this case it seems so strange for a couple reasons:
- This is the PC port of a game that has existed for years. Why bring this up now?
- This is a superhero game that is set in New York City, but it’s not OUR New York City. It’s a fictional New York City, and it’s absolutely possible to imagine that in THIS NYC, cops are not a-holes.
Plus the fact that not every game has to be a political statement. Totally fine if devs want it to be, but this author seems to think that they all must.
I was born in NYC and still work in Manhattan a few times a week. This is my 1st playthrough w/ Spider-Man, as is the case for many. Totally fine to bring this up ‘now’ since it was literally just released on PC.
I too feel pretty icky working w/ the ultra sh***y NYPD as I start this game. I’m still gonna play it. It’s awesome to zip around as Spidey and beat up cartoonish bad guys. Doesn’t mean that the occasional PD related wave of disgust has no impact, but sure, we’re all adults and can separate fiction from reality. I mean, a virtuous PD is about as realistic as Spider-Man himself. I’m not lamenting that Spider-Man tech is unrealistic, and ruining my experience. But it’s tough to ignore RL experience and constant betrayal/disappointment from NYPD. That doesn’t ruin the game (for me), but it certainly colors it.
I probably already know the answer to this, but…as a PC mouse/keyboard guy who basically sucks with console controls, is this game remotely playable with m/kb? I tried the Batman games that way, but it was…not great.
I’d say it’s pretty much akin to Batman. It’s a variant on the same combat system. I use M/K for shooters, but this is a game that does scream for a gamepad.
As an oldie, I hedge against my suckitude w/ a gamepad by notching the combat difficulty way down.
My recommendation is to use controller and practice using it so you can also enjoy other games with a controller. “I suck with console controls” is a short term problem that’s easily rectified. An entire world of amazing games will then open up for you.
No one is asking you to agree with the commentary - you’re free to go about your days simply enjoying video games and not connecting them to real-world events at all.
Just like I encourage you to live your best life and not worry about things that no one is asking you to worry about, I ask that you respect me and others who do make these connections instead of brushing off our opinions as obnoxious.
For me, I played Spider-Man on my PS4 right after the NYPD was violently attacking peaceful protests and otherwise assaulting day to day citizens. It was gross. It was impossible for me to play Spider-Man, getting asked to set up a vast, comprehensive surveillance state for the NYPD, and not make a connection.
Is anyone asking others to stop playing the game because of this? Or dislike the game? I don’t think so?
I acknowledge that. I just enjoy m/kb so much more, and have so many games that function great that way, the motivation to go through the process of getting a controller and hooking it up and learning it has been…low.
This game looks super cool though, and if there’s a game to change my mind, this is a contender.
Hey I get it - I was the same not too long ago, in that I also “sucked with a controller” and played everything m/kb, which I really liked (and still do prefer depending on the game).
But I’m telling you - adapt, sooner is better, you won’t regret it.
If you do manage to be able to use the controller and are good enough at using it to defeat this game in particular, you can use it to play literally anything that also plays with a controller.
So that’s either a bonus or a huge non-starter, I guess?
(For the record I could not finish the game because I could not control it and I don’t really suck with controllers? I think…Spider-Man is complicated, control-wise, for sure)
Yeah, as a current 61 year-old, I wasn’t born with a controller in my hands, either, let alone the relatively complex controllers we’ve had since the PlayStation came out in '95. My first regular experience of that one was with the PS2 when my brother brought one home in 2003 or so, and I was 42 that year. When GTA San Andreas came out I had a hell of a time beating the obligatory dance mission in the story line until I forced myself to call the buttons “X” “Box” “Up” and “O” and say them to myself as they passed the “timing marker” or whatever it’s called.
This game is amazing, spectacular, the ultimate in entertainment.
Really enjoying it. Combat and movement definitely make you feel like Spiderman.
By implying that it’s doing some horrendous insensitive thing and trying to level it as serious criticism (which is insane) I do believe that sentiment is saying that it’s “in the wrong”. I just don’t believe it’s an honest criticism in a game where you are yee-hawing 360 web swing bad guys like a sling shot.
You are certainly within your right if details hit close to home, but it’s a helluva reach.
I’m finally clicking with the traversal system and my god it’s amazing. Maybe the best I’ve ever experienced in a game like this. Swinging around NYC is just so joyous. I just spent some time doing that and loved it.
If this were some other hero universe, like say Gotham, and you were helping the cops set up a city-wide surveillance device, it would be weird and off-putting when you consider how often the cops in Gotham are portrayed as crooked. In fact, if the plot didn’t at some point turn into a warning about the surveillance state, I’d be confused. Doubly so when you factor in Batman’s tendency to use extra-legal techniques to beat up alleged criminals and immobilize his enemies.
In Spider-Man’s universe, (not necessarily the MCU or even Marvel 616, just the localized environment best known as Spider-Man’s world) the police are largely honorable and dedicated to a bygone concept of justice and peace. They aren’t ACAB thugs. They’re an idealized version of how police should be for the most part. Is that naïve and simplistic? You bet. But that’s the bright and cheery NYC that Peter Parker lives in.
Windows Defender keeps identifying the 516.94 GeForce drivers as a trojan so won’t let me download them unfortunately. Anybody else having that problem?