Eh… Jenner hadn’t completed in sports for decades when she transitioned to being a woman.
I mean sure, but that’s like saying Neil Armstrong hadn’t been to the moon in decades, so maybe he’s now Neil Armstrong, singer. Er, except in this case, it’s the reverse point… you get what i’m saying.
Thread is missing:
Gonna go with “bad assertion” on your initial statement that implied only 1 person responded having being fully aware of what was said, and within what context.
I’m just saying that when she made this claim, she was no longer speaking as an athlete who the topic had any impact on.
On the other hand, I find this a bit disingenuous. If a genetic male competes with genetic females in what we generally consider “sports” then they will win.
That’s such a polite way of saying manufactured culture war bullshit.
Hey, I’m down for that, but that’s a societal change, not a biological or gender change. Our overblown focus on sports as some sort of social quality is not my favorite thing.
I did see a weird study of like Harvard students that showed that, at least in the sample size, the average women sampled had about 1/3 the upper body strength and about 2/3 the lower body strength of the average man. I think it was actually a weirdly specific study worrying about Asian strength because it was presuming to study Causacian vs. Asian averages or something specifically relevant to the worries of the researcher, but that other data could be pulled out of it.
Indeed, but I figured we were about to get a whole stack of flapjacks from someone in the thread, and was trying to pre-polite specifically for that. :)
It’s fucking dumb to even think about this.
Like, I understand that some women and some men have competitive advantages over one another, but
- This isn’t a widespread issue, trans women aren’t dominating the high school sports scene.
- Nobody is transitioning to win at women’s basketball.
- Being trans is not a choice, they should be able to play just like anyone else
- What about the “unfair” advantage of a basketball player who is 6’10" They were born that way, and it give them a pretty good advantage over their peers, should they be allowed to play in the same high school leagues?
- This is a ridiculous argument about a problem that isn’t real outside of the minds of people poisoned by terfs.
Obviously, there is a huge scientifically proven advantage to have certain hormones over others for various things like muscle building etc. But I don’t think that those really would put you at more or less of an advantage over others when you look at other advantages that some players might have.
The gawky 6 foot tall girl who kicks ass at volleyball has a huge advantage over that average 5’5" girl. Is that fair to the other girls? Just because she was born with the “tall” gene. Why would that be different than a girl who has transitioned? What I am saying is that it is a slippery slope when you try to bring in competitive fairness in sports. What about girls with trisomy? Should they be banned?
The only HS sport I can think that is the most fair is wrestling. it is co-ed, and it is done by weight class.
What I am saying is that sports will always have players with physical advantages or disadvantages over other players, and I think with how rare of an occurance this is.
Why would you put a law in place to “protect sports” when there is less than a percent of teens who identify as trans, with an even more significant portion of those not interested in sports.
This is a made up TERF talking point to try to classify trans women as not “real” women
Trans women are women, trans women can play women’s sports.
I mean, I feel we would need to look at the numbers and see whether this would actually bear out. Would cis women be totally crowded out?
If the world records are held by trans women, I guess I don’t really care. The individuals at the very top are going to be outliers regardless. I’m more concerned about whether there is space for cis women in general.
Yeah, in general, we all think we know what “fairness” is, but if you’re really pressed to define it, it becomes complicated very quickly.
I mean, in the entire history of school sports, how many transgender women have actually competed or even sought to compete in women’s sports?
Again though, and this is the last point i’ll make about this, it’s denying the reality of women’s vs. men’s bodies as actually existing. That’s no fun when talking about trans identity, but that’s one of those hurdles trans culture is going to have to get through, and will, eventually.
But really the “best” case scenario (which probably won’t satisfy anyone) is probably just looking at it on a case by case basis and making sure the existing athletes and the systems under which they’re competing are a-ok with a specific trans athlete. I do agree though this is a lot of culture war nonsense, but there is some reality to it, even if certain people don’t want to admit it.
I mean, again, this is great if you don’t care about it… but what if you do? Replace “trans” by “AI” and “sports” with “your job” and suddenly maybe it does matter, to you. But if sports are your job, or something you’re invested in, maybe it’s not so sanguine to throw it under the bus?
Clearly this is a problem that needs addressing. I mean just look at this:
Which is why the statement you quoted was specifically differentiating individual achievement outliers from whether there is space for cis women in sports in general.
I think its reasonable that people have an expectation
of taking part in their chosen sport. But no individual has a right to hold a world record.
But you said it there, the gawky 6 foot tall girl has an advantage. Put her in the Men’s league and she’ll get wrecked. Men’s and women’s sports exist to provide dual paths to glory as outlined by our society. I’m all for reducing the cultural cachet of sports in general but let’s be honest. The realm of what we call “sports” or “athletics” is geared to massively favor the characteristics of an XY chromosome.
It isn’t though. Nobody is denying that. What I am saying is that it is ridiculous, especially in H.S. sports to think that being a trans woman has more of a competitive advantage over so many other things that could be happening"
I mean, people know that sports take skill too right? Like, have you seen the movie “The Ringer”? It is a surprisingly good film, but the jist is. A guy thinks that he can “fix” the special olympics by pretending to be disabled, only to have his ass handed to him by the other athletes, you know, who might have a “disadvantage” due to their varying array of birth and genetic disorders, but somehow still can compete, because they are talented and dedicated athletes on their own.
You obviously can’t deny the science that male and female bodies are different, and good and bad at different athletic things, but we are also talking about kids who spend possibly years of their lives training to be athletes as well, and I think that any chromosomal advantage a trans kid would have would just end up in the wash. Especially when we are talking about a MAXIMUM of 0.7% of all high schoolers.
So the all-girls Football and Basketball teams who try really hard will surely be beating all-male teams anytime soon?
(ok this is the last comment)
No, the reason women’s sports (in any non-intramural capacity) exist is a long, ugly cultural and political battle ultimately lead to title IX. I don’t really blame some women for being a little hesitant to compromise such a hard fought gain.