The issue with Steel Titan is more of the reverse in PVE, it’s to make sure she doesn’t trigger it when she doesn’t contribute to the kills: simply damaging will mean she will get hurt a lot.
For Listell, the math is very simple: if her own health is above your character’s+her soldier’s total health, and she isn’t silenced, you are dead. This isn’t a trouble for most heavy hitters — although she still hurts — but you usually see glass cannons more than bruisers in the higher tier of arenas.
There are two things to consider, her range (5+2, usually: if she is 4+2, this probably means she is immune to fixed dmg, a quite popular choice it seems. If she is 6+2, you didn’t pay attention and she has been buffed ;), and whether Liana is here and has moved. In the local arena, with all characters taking their turn together, there is very little you can do to survive a powered up Listell+Liana, but in the versus arenas she is fairly easily dispatched.
Full disclosure: I often put her up in my lineup because the other player suiciding one of his own high movement character to kill her is not rare, making it a fair trade at worse, and in the case he doesn’t, she is establishing a very nice zone of control — and she sure can win a game if you let her.
I’ve noticed those liana + Listell combos. Easily the most dangerous. When I see her in world arena matches it’s typically an “I’m out of my league match” and I’m screwed. People are sharp enough that I can’t do anything about it and maybe can’t kill her in time and oh god it hurts so much. But I now see a lot of much weaker Listells in regular arena. . . who can still cause a huge hurting. Especially when you are autoing and and Tiaris drops miracle onto the listell-infected team. I still won, but that was much tenser than it ought to have been (AI target priority didn’t help, as she was the priority target for like 3 straight turns but the last person my team killed). It was a good thing I had such a decided advantage in the match.
So I’m seeing, in PVP (and standard caveats apply; much moreso in regular arena but also in world. I am usually facing weaker teams in regular, notsomuch in world, but I see decent leons a fair bit), a lotof Strike Master Leons with bats. I get it, strike master gets better up front attack I think, and bats giver sustain (and sizable stat boost, if leveled). I just wonder if this is a more preferred strategy at higher level. Or it’s just a possible strategy and people do whatever they want to do.
I understand people use Leon if they have no other choices (and those high numbers are sexy) but frankly, this always strikes me as a poor choice unless it’s motivated to exploit the terrain with Alte on a desert map for instance.
I see him used as a sort of physical damage based Lana: he can reach out 3 spaces from a tank and pull a big punch. But Lana is so much better at this: she can one shot about anyone, while Leon will just crash onto a big enough wall of HP.
I’d also take a bruiser like Altemuller over him anytime: the bruiser can stand there, in a weird spot, being annoying and usually necessating some effort from the opponent to dispatch — something that no Leon can pull.
Usually, when I see an Elwin or a Leon lined up, I take it as good news.
When I see a Ledin, I check his numbers and if I see he got big, big health, I know I’ve lost if I can’t silence and dispatch him first.
The 65 dragons are probably easier than you’d expect… the 60 temples can be surprisingly rough, since they assume a pretty fully built team that all has the faction bonus. I still don’t have Scylla or Leviar done at 60. Decent odds I get a level 70 dragon down first, actually, since I still have at least 1-2 characters that need significant buildout in Glory or Dark to get those temples down, and guild seals are a current bottleneck. Off-faction Leon covers up a lot of problems in most game modes, but not there.
Scylla is ridiculously overtuned to counter all those people maining Elwin and Cherie for the past 6 months. I only got last week to the point I had enough damage output to kill her on the ultimate turn, simply because no other characters from the selection can come close to breaking her armor, no matter how strong they or their gear are.
Ironically, Scylla is also made so she doesn’t deal any damage, because no Cherie would ever survive any of the map attack of any of the other temple boss. The addition of that RNG on the immunity of her guardian is also freaking annoying. It’s by far the least interesting fight.
65 dragons is simply a matter of killing the mobs fast enough usually (or for your healer to survive his breath, for the fire one). They are really not that different from 60 dragons, excepting they got twice the health: you will probably lose to the timer more than lose to their damage.
Yeah, 65 dragons are not a big step up from 60. 70 fire and Ice are quite a bit different from 65 though; 70 dark and thunder have new mechanics but they can succumb to the same tactics as 65 (albeit with a steeper stat requirement)
One try on 60 thunder today didn’t go well. I couldn’t kill the serpent across the bridge with Leon (attack; pull back, red buff, again) and he didn’t make it to the dragon. Elwin just couldn’t take it down fast enough (it was just him at that piint, Ledin couldn’t do much). I think it will be possible with a little bit of character growth, though. But that could be weeks since I’m down to occasional enchants and bond levels. 6* Elwin would help too. If I can just get his damage up a little bit more that might turn the tide. I still have 5 packs of scrolls I can purchase this week but I want to shift Elwin to full moon I think (he’s on rough sea currently).
I think a change I would try next time for thunder is bringing Leon’s fbuff and waiting a turn so I can cast that.
I think I’ll be able to do ice 65. And dark probably. Bozel just passed 5k and Lana is like 50 points off, they’re both doing well (soem gear upgrades and enchants helped there).
Picked up Charon today so I’m going to put spirits in it (and give it to Ledin; it’s already got one spirit and is level 30) and then pass on Aeneas to Elwin once I can.
To my recent WA opponent: why are you the way you are?
As in, why did you field:
Super buff Ledin
Buff Landius in tank mode
Not at all buff Juggler
Very good Lana
Very good Bozel.
I beat you. Do you understand why I beat you? Your mages are pretty good but they’re not that good. It was easy to heal. So you had 17 layers of guards everywhere. It was easy to target Juggler all the same and he was your only healing. And my single bozel did as much work as your two mages,just based on the debuffs.
Would thatI could have faced him again. I was on a new map I had never seen before - sort of like a floating platform in the sky with a weird littlr 1-lane bridge going off to the bot (p2’s goes to the top). Enemy deployed Joshua and Leonhardt’s with 850+ pre-deploy attack.
That did not go well. No way for me to get in range of anything, and he could just again Leonh. Guess I should have deployed Liana too and tried to use cherry to kill him, but I’m skeptical I could have done it.
I think a lot of CLake players are tapping out of World Arena. When I’m in top 100 rankings you know our server’s doing poorly! On the plus side I think a lot more people are using Casual matches to get their 5 wins. I won’t get a chance to pvp today so I went to casuals to get my last win during lunch. Got someone who abided by the “you go second, you retreat” rule within 10 seconds.
I have a very poor record facing anyone fielding Listell. Not being able to ban units is tough. I’ve only played 5 Apex matches so far but I enjoyed them a lot more.
Damnation I just got “no opponent found” in casual WA. I am the only person that happens to lol.
I think you are right on wA though. I am currently 89, which is about 30-40 points higher than when I typically peak (and I often wind up ~130-150 for the week). I guess I might end up with just 4 wins this week but if I stay in the to 100 it will probably mostly be worth it sort of.
Sadly, my latest Listell shenanigans came in normal arena. She didn’t look that bad (lower health than all my front line). She still did so much damage that enemy Bozel was able to kill two people with black hole.
I then followed that up with a match against a team like 3500 power less than me but they had a 6* Elwin I couldn’t kill to save my life. Sigh.
The Listell/Klose showdowns are fun. Klose can neuter her Dance, but doing so, she opens her team to a very damaging backfire of Listell’s talent if she can cast mind bore on a stack.
My 4 aforementionned buddies left the game last week after the World Arena change, so yeah, it hurt. But the scale of the ranking is to blame too: starting in the Gold Ranks, matches give puny points if you win, and barely take points away if you lose. Thus, those ranks are kinda… stuck… There is a member of my guild who has stopped playing for over two months (!) and is still showing well in the top 100 because he was trusting the #1 rank back then.
Personnally, I frankly lost the spirits to go to Langrisser rank when I figured it’d take about 300 winning matches to reach it.
If they do drop 100 points per week (they prolly do, the person in question had 2200 points, so enough to stay for 8 weeks in the top 100, even at that rate), I can’t think of the amount of time needed to maintain that rank. It’s just insane.
The good thing with Listell is she requires little gear investment to be somewhat effective, as HP bonus are aplenty in the SR stuff. But I don’t think she is as powered as a lot of people think she is. Unlike, say, an annoying little white haired witch of death.
Yeah, that doesn’t sound right, so they probably drop a nominal amount each week instead.
I assume Listell doesn’t need much star investment as well, although I should get her to at least 4*. I sacrificed 50 of her shards during the valentine banner to boost Landius faster.
I plan to ban Zerida first in every Apex match, and probably Listell second. What kind of Apex selection do you run with? I’m doing the suggested 2 Tanks 4 Healers 9 others split, though in my limited games it happened quite a few times that I end up with 2 healers.
