Lost

Your heightened taste, along with superior intellect and keen insight into human nature must be a terrible burden to bear.

And my apologizes, Tracy Baker, for dragging down the collective well-being of civilization and allowing lesser art to flourish for not being indignantly outraged about a story told on television (OMG MEDIUM EXCUSE FOR POOR CRAFTSMANSHIP I’M SORRY) as well not obsessing about a character not being named.

Please, purge me. I’m ashamed of myself. I should be arrested. I should be purged. I should be flogged. [PLAGIARISM]

Please continue to uphold your refined standards by excoriating all bad writing on television, the movies, and books. And by that I mean everything that doesn’t conform to your every whim and spoon-fed every conceivable piece of trivia relating to any television show that makes you feel jilted. At least you haven’t mentioned the name thing in a day or so.

Now, I honestly don’t care that you are locked in, with your eyes rolled up like a shark in mid-bite to your particular perspective that its “sloppy storytelling”. What keeps bringing me back like a wolf circling a staked piece of meat is your supreme insistence that if you aren’t up in arms like unshackled captives realizing they have been watching shadows on the wall of a cave, you (the great unwashed kool-aid-drinking masses) are shallow creatures of low expectations.

I reject that the plotting must be Lucas prequel-like in its coincidental interconnectivity, that the audience imperfect knowledge, which has been generally reflective of the imperfect knowledge of the protagonists (with exceptions made to heighten the drama) must be made perfect for the end to be complete and “well-written”. I won’t argue that the story is without breaks in its internal consistency (Christian in the ship), that there were strands left particularly dangling. Things such as the baby crises of the first few seasons, although the things that were important in the story tended to be the things that were important to the protagonists at that moment, and thus shifted over time; therefore when Aaron and Sun’s baby were born, these crises were no longer important the 815’ers and thus no longer important to the story. Very few answers were given to the audience on a platter, at times due to somewhat strained (severely so at times) dialog contrivances, although again just because I or someone sitting in their living room with time week to week is going to have more and better questions than characters living in the moment.

[Note: inconsistencies such as these are more forgivable in a television series than it is in a movie because a television series is by nature a collaborative effort that takes place over several years with any number of possible changes in the on-camera and behind the scenes players, as opposed to a movie, a medium which lends itself to more singular control and avoiding these issues.]

I think there were enough clues for the audience to come up with a narrative containing a semi-self-reflecting series of answers (a spaceship/science-fiction source of light at the end vs. a religious/archeological/metaphysical source, dependent upon the viewers’ own epistemological orientation). That those answers were not defined for you by the showrunners doesn’t make it bad storytelling or lessen the artistic value of the work, any more than having an influence on a game such as Mass Effect’s story makes that poor storytelling (this is still QT3, right?). One day there may be an authoritative version of the story written/published/released. Not having one doesn’t make “Lost” a more expensive version of “Charles in Charge”.

In time, I think the show’s run will be fully appreciated by more of those not caught up in the emotional sweep of the finale, positively or negatively.

One of these things is not like the other… The fact that Mass Effect tells a compelling story in spite of its branching narrative doesn’t cast Lost’s failure to do so in a better light.

Also, the use of the word"clues" implies that there is an actual mystery to solve, but the solution to Lost’s mystery turned out to be “and then eternity ate them”.

But the goal of writing isn’t to allow your reader to “come up with a narrative”, it’s to give them one.

You don’t sell tone poems and David Lynch movies with tag lines like “Everything happens for a reason.”

One day there may be an authoritative version of the story written/published/released. Not having one doesn’t make “Lost” a more expensive version of “Charles in Charge”.

I’d say Gilligan’s Isle is a more apt comparison.

I guess you missed the part where I said I don’t judge individuals by their taste in TV. I meant that – I don’t care what you like any more than you care what I like – but hey, don’t let it slow you down.

Please continue to uphold your refined standards by excoriating all bad writing on television, the movies, and books.

Roger Wilco, only I wasn’t complaining about the writing on Lost so much as the storytelling. There’s a difference, whether you care to accept it or not, but again, don’t let that trip you up when you’re on such a roll.

And by that I mean everything that doesn’t conform to your every whim and spoon-fed every conceivable piece of trivia relating to any television show that makes you feel jilted. At least you haven’t mentioned the name thing in a day or so.

Well, I’ve already said I’ve cut Lost a lot of slack in a lot of areas simply because I enjoy the show and many things would devolve into midochlorian-level letdowns if fully explained, so I don’t see where you’re getting this “conform to your every whim and spoon-fed every conceivable piece of trivia” nonsense. Still enjoying your screed, though.

Regarding your “at least you haven’t mentioned the name thing in a day or so” comment, it was my understanding that this was a discussion about Lost, and plenty of other people seemed interested in discussing that aspect of it. But by all means, carry on.

Now, I honestly don’t care that you are locked in, with your eyes rolled up like a shark in mid-bite to your particular perspective that its “sloppy storytelling”. What keeps bringing me back like a wolf circling a staked piece of meat is your supreme insistence that if you aren’t up in arms like unshackled captives realizing they have been watching shadows on the wall of a cave, you (the great unwashed kool-aid-drinking masses) are shallow creatures of low expectations.

A creature of low expectations isn’t necessarily shallow. Sometimes they’re worn down and defeated by mediocrity, and sometimes they just don’t give a damn. That’s fine, or at least I hope it is because I often read books or watch things going in with low expectations and still manage to enjoy them on some level. That doesn’t mean I’m going to get to the end of those things and declare my everlasting love for them and swear to protect them from their detractors to my dying breath. You’re accusing me of something you’re guilty of, only you’re coming from the other side.

I did get a nice laugh out of your wolf simile, however. Kudos!

I reject that the plotting must be Lucas prequel-like in its coincidental interconnectivity, that the audience imperfect knowledge, which has been generally reflective of the imperfect knowledge of the protagonists (with exceptions made to heighten the drama) must be made perfect for the end to be complete and “well-written”.

Me too.

I won’t argue that the story is without breaking its internal consistency (Christian in the ship), that there were strands left particularly dangling. Things such as the baby crises of the first few seasons, although the things that were important in the story tended to be the things that were important to the protagonists at that moment, and thus shifted over time; therefore when Aaron and Sun’s baby were born, these crises were no longer important the 815’ers and thus no longer important to the story. Very few answers were given to the audience on a platter, at times due to somewhat strained (severely so at times) dialog contrivances, although again just because I or someone sitting in their living room with time week to week is going to have more and better questions than characters living in the moment.

Agreed, although if I was trapped on an island with a bunch of other people and then some more people and then even more people and weird shit going on on a daily basis, you can bet I’d have a whole hell of a lot of questions. Never mind the fact that the dialog contrivances we saw represented a tiny fraction of the time the Losties interacted with one another. WTF were they doing the other 23 hours and 59 minutes of the day? Gazing into the ocean? Silently building sand castles? Wait, don’t answer those questions.

I think there were enough clues for the audience to come up with a narrative containing a semi-self-reflecting series of answers (a spaceship/science-fiction source of light at the end vs. a religious/archeological/metaphysical source, dependent upon the viewers’ own epistemological orientation). That those answers were not defined for you by the showrunners doesn’t make it bad storytelling or lessen the artistic value of the work, any more than having an influence on a game such as Mass Effect’s story makes that poor storytelling (this is still QT3, right?). One day there may be an authoritative version of the story written/published/released. Not having one doesn’t make “Lost” a more expensive version of “Charles in Charge”.

Again, I’ve never said that there weren’t elements of the show (the light, the inner workings of the smoke monster, etc.) that are better left unexplained. You can keep pretending I did, though, if it helps maintain the rolling boil you’ve worked yourself into.

In time, I think the show’s run will be fully appreciated by more of those not caught up in the emotional sweep of the finale, positively or negatively.

In time, this show will be viewed as a fun but overwrought relic with some fine acting, some terrible acting, an overall incoherent plot, and a weak ending. I do like your claim here that I’m incapable of fully appreciating the show because I’m too caught up in my emotions to think properly. It’s especially fitting at the end of the diatribe that began with you accusing me of claiming you’re too unsophisticated and barbaric to fully appreciate the show’s failings. You’ve really come full circle, wolfman, and I commend you. Now you can go for the kill.

I won’t argue that they certainly are dissimilar in most respects but the commonality I was looking to invoke was that of choice: in Mass Effect you chose the actions that you take to reach the end; in Lost, you chose how to interpret the events of the show. I think I know how the writers intended for them to be interpreted but they left room for other interpretations, other explanations of the forces driving the events while delivering a specific set of outcomes for the characters.

I don’t recall “everything happens for a reason” as a tagline but our not knowing that reason in every case doesn’t necessarily invalid the line.

“Gilligan’s Island” would have been the perfect counterpoint in my comparison.

You don’t recall a lot of things.

I suspect that how much a person ultimately enjoyed the show is inversely proportional to how much attention they paid to advertising, podcasts, and interviews with the writers.

Color yourself correct in at least one post. Hurray! Also, see the second half of my sentence for the M.Night twist of why the poster is apropos of nothing but here, have a cookie regardless.

Thanks for the cookie, and for providing more evidence that your standards are low. “Why, it’s just a tagline with dual purpose of succinctly summing up the entire season and establishing viewer expectations. Pshaw! Meaningless fluff apropos of nothing!”

What, you mean all the meta stuff that some people in this thread have claimed is essential to enjoying the show?

Density of galactic proportion:

Just because the Moon man didn’t come from behind the curtain and explain to you in intricate detail the reasons, doesn’t mean A) the art sucks B) you have to know it, other than in general outline to complete the narrative journey.

Since I have low standards, as long as Arnold beats Sly in the final fight, I don’t care if Bruce and Sandra get off the Island in time to Dance with the Stars or not.

Also allow me to point out that sometimes the people that make the posters and taglines and the people who make the movies/tv shows/newspaper articles aren’t the same people.

[Note: something I caught earlier, just because I named you in one part doesn’t mean every line of the whole post applies to just you. We are all in the circle of trust here ITT!]

Are you talking about yourself, because you apparently threw out a term without knowing what it meant:

If that’s not what you intended to say, fine, but that’s what I was responding to because I thought you were extending your thoughts about the tagline to that extreme degree.

Also allow me to point out that sometimes the people that make the posters and people who make the movies/tv shows/newspaper articles don’t write the taglines.

Allow me to point out that if that’s the case here it’s even more ridiculous because the Lost producers should have their heads out of their asses long enough to have a meeting of the minds with the ad people. Plus, that phrase and phrases like it were something of a mantra when the writers and producers discussed the show.

I was actually making reference to your “gotcha” moment being apropos of nothing, because of the M.Night TWIST of the the second half of the sentence.

From my understanding, the movie vs. movie poster thing is not uncommon. Even if it wasn’t the case here (and I assuredly don’t remember ever seeing that ad/poster anywhere, the magical second half of my sentence takes that in to account.

I don’t know how I was supposed to get that out of, “also, see the second half of my sentence for the M.Night twist of why the poster is apropos of nothing,” considering it includes the phrase, “the poster is apropos of nothing,” and not the phrase, “your ‘gotcha’ moment is apropos of nothing,” but if you say so I’ll take your word for it.

Advertising is the devil. Mostly because so often the advertising people have no contact with the creative people and will say things to sell a product that are not in line with what the product can or will deliver. You see it as a failure of the show to live up to the marketing. I see it as a failure of the marketing to describe the show.

The fact that you are hung up on a tagline for a poster from 2005 is like people from the 1960’s being upset that they haven’t gotten the jetpacks and flying cars they were promised. You were sold a line of bunk by an ad campaign, one that predates the decision to end the show, one that wasn’t used for the first season or in subsequent seasons, and are upset that the writers, who probably forgot this tagline that they may have never agreed to in the first place, didn’t fulfill its promise.

Other taglines include “They’re not the survivors they think they are.”, “All of them have a secret, all of them are Lost!”, “On this island, survival is not a game.”, “Don’t Tell Them What They Can’t Do.”, “Us vs. Them”, “Lost is Found”, “Find Yourself”, “Destiny Calls”, “Destiny Found” and “The Wait is Over”. My personal favorite, however, has to be “The truth will be revealed.” from Season 2. I don’t recall us getting the truth of anything is Season 2.

Wow. It’s pretty amusing watching you guys tie yourselves in knots defending the most indefensible parts of the show.

The fact your lecture conveniently ignored is that tagline wasn’t randomly picked out of a bag to use as an example. It’s something the writers and producers repeatedly trotted out themselves. If the creators of the show parroting a tagline doesn’t lend that tagline any extra credence, I don’t know what it would take to convince you that, in this case at least, the left hand knew what the right hand was doing. But hey, why not try to make anyone who would believe something like that out to be some gullible rube who doesn’t understand the crazy advertising industry?

A few weeks back, we reported that the Lost Complete Series DVD/Blu-Ray sets will contain an extra fifteen minutes of footage that will act as an epilogue for the series; focusing on the unseen Hurley/Ben years on the Island.

Well, now E!Online’s Kristin Dos Santos has managed to get a lot more information about this DVD extra from Lost star Jorge Garcia.

“It will address some of the issues, like the food drops, and it will deal with what happened on the island after Hurley took over and how he handled things,” Garcia said. Wait, what? Food drops? How awesome would it be if this DVD extra just featured Hurley asking Ben ALL of the unanswered questions? Like, they’re strolling along and Hurley says “Dude, what was up with the bird who said my name?” Think about it. Who can actually answer a lot of our lingering questions? Ben! And who’s the guy who would actually ASK about those mysteries? Hurley! What a great duo.

Garcia admitted to Dos Santos that he did act with some other people, aside from Michael Emerson (“Ben”), in the epilogue, but he remained tight-lipped about their names. An insider did tell her, however, that Malcolm David Kelly (“Walt”) will be in the bonus material and that what’s shown might tie up the whole “Waaaalt!” mystery.

Oh, right, they were saving it for the DVD.

Fuck lost.

And yet you’re the one who said the metanarrative shouldn’t be required to understand the show.

It shouldn’t. I didn’t say it doesn’t exist. Or that it shouldn’t exist to supplement the show. So what’s your point?

You’re using the metanarrative that you say shouldn’t be required for understanding to justify the fact that you’re cranky about how they didn’t give you the reasons behind everything that happened. Since nobody forces that metanarrative down your throat, I’m disinclined to think that’s a reasonable point.

Lost sucks EOD