Keep in mind you were responding to Desslock, who has a hyberbole-o-stat that can be set anywhere between 10 and 11. Translated to normal english, all that was said was that Sharpton was a bit sketchy.
I think it’s beyond “a bit sketchy” at this point. The guy is personally behind on his taxes by MILLIONS of dollars. That means that he earned WAY MORE, and skipped the taxes on it.
Beyond that, he has started multiple businesses, had them basically buy him shit, while they too skipped paying taxes, to the extent that the state shut down one, only to have him just do it again.
There is absolutely no question here. The guy is a criminal. This is illegal. And, as others have said, the average person would be in jail if they did this kind of bullshit. They wouldn’t get a show on TV.
The only reason he’s not in jail, is because he has high ranking political connections. And that is cronyism at its worst.
I believe it’s laying groundwork for a Clinton connection.
Well for me personally, I have considered him a piece of shit for pretty much as long as I have been aware of his existence, which I guess was the Tawana stuff, but that was a long long time ago. Recently, it was Ferguson and the news on just how much of a tax cheat he is. He is in the business of making money on racial strife. He has done nothing to improve race relations and I think he lives for shit like Ferguson where he can get out there and stir the pot. He is not in jail because he is a black liberal democrat and very friendly with Obama.
I do think this forum gives Obama a pass on a lot of things, his association with Al Sharpton included. ‘Worships’ was hyperbole but in general there is a double standard here and I was just pointing that out.
They’re despicable because they comply with the law but you don’t like 'em because they have too much, but Al Sharpton has stolen millions and created a seemingly endless series of companies that have each defrauded the government and investors and he’s all right, because the dude doesn’t sound too rich too you. C’mon man.
They put Wesley Snipes in jail for years for not declaring his taxes earned on his movies, and Sharpton gets a pass not only for not paying his taxes, but defrauding the government repeatedly? You’re always complaining about a lack of regulation - how is a guy who has never paid any taxes from any of his businesses continually get permitted to start new businesses? The guy should have spent the last 20 years in jail, and instead he’s given TV shows and governmental positions?
No I am talking about tax evading billionaires. If they comply with the law and pay their taxes why would I have any problem with that? Otherwise it’s the same crime Al Sharpton is committing presumably, just on a vastly larger scale and in a far more untouchable way in most cases.
They put Wesley Snipes in jail for years for not declaring his taxes earned on his movies, and Sharpton gets a pass not only for not paying his taxes, but defrauding the government repeatedly? You’re always complaining about a lack of regulation - how is a guy who has never paid any taxes from any of his businesses continually get permitted to start new businesses? The guy should have spent the last 20 years in jail, and instead he’s given TV shows and governmental positions?
I don’t remember stating or implying that he should not be investigated and punished if found guilty. I just don’t think he’s a Bond villain.
edit: and it’s worth noting that there are significant differences between Sharpton’s and Snipes’ cases, Sharpton is not paying his taxes on time, which the government can and is pursuing (via liens and pressure on sharpton to pay). Paying your taxes late (even very late!!) does not usually result in jailtime, and even the penalties can be avoided if good faith is shown. Snipes refused utterly to pay taxes and submitted very obviously fraudulent tax refund claims, and subsequently went to jail for it.
double edit: Snipes got three years and owed several times more than what Sharpton owes. 20 years sounds like a lot. or did he commit murder in 1995 or something?
Sharpton has repeatedly dodged paying his taxes, for years. Even after being caught for it, he has continued to dodge paying taxes, and now owes even MORE money to the government.
It’s indefensible. Trying to make it out to not be that bad, and not just the result of political cronyism is just going to play into Olaf’s suggestion that your position is motivated entirely by politics.
I have literally no dog in this fight. In fact I find it amusing that you think I am defending him. Is your position also that he should get a 20 year jail term and that he is a Bond villain? Maybe a more real world response would be for the government to evaluate what he owes, put a lien on his holdings for that amount (plus penalties if they want), and investigate any potential fraud.
If someone said Rupert Murdoch should get the electric chair I would probably “defend” him too, and I think that dude is a monster. I had a relative who firmly believed that the neocons Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld et al were literally Nazis trying to overthrow American democracy. Guess what I had to do there. Sometimes being realistic is not emotionally statisfying, sorry.
When tribalism is a big part of your world, it’s easy to imagine everyone thinks that way.
But you are just creating a strawman argument, by suggesting that someone is suggesting that Al Sharpton is “a bond villain”. Yes, he does not live in a volcano and steal spaceships. I think we can all agree on that.
But should he go to jail? Based on all of the evidence, I think the answer is most definitely yes… because he’s not only evaded taxes, he’s done so REPEATEDLY. Getting behind on your taxes is one thing. It could potentially happen through some accounting error or something (although honestly, most folks know that you actually need to file taxes, so ignorance here is kind of hard to believe).
But after you’re caught for it? To then do it AGAIN? Such that you actually continue to owe more and more money to the government?
Hasn’t that crossed the line into intentionally criminal behavior at that point?
But should he go to jail? Based on all of the evidence, I think the answer is most definitely yes… because he’s not only evaded taxes, he’s done so REPEATEDLY. Getting behind on your taxes is one thing. It could potentially happen through some accounting error or something (although honestly, most folks know that you actually need to file taxes, so ignorance here is kind of hard to believe).
But after you’re caught for it? To then do it AGAIN? Such that you actually continue to owe more and more money to the government?
Hasn’t that crossed the line into intentionally criminal behavior at that point?
The thing is, nobody here is actually defending him or saying that he shouldn’t go to jail.
Sharpton was a thieving scumbag long before the Obama administration. Why wasn’t he jailed during a Bush administration?
Sure it’s bad but people (or corporations) aren’t usually jailed for it. The government has tools to extract that money effectively by force, and furthermore if the person who owes back taxes is cooperating even nominally that is usually enough to avoid jail time. Even if he refused cooperate, I think the biggest sentence he could receive is 5 years, not 20.
Hasn’t that crossed the line into intentionally criminal behavior at that point?
Possibly I don’t have enough info to say, but I would note that Sharpton recognizes that he owes these taxes and has made statements that he is trying to pay them.
I think that with the Sharpton thing, there are two fundamental questions to answer:
First, is he criminally trying to avoid paying by concealment, or is it that he simply owes a lot of back-taxes? Has there actually been charges filed for criminal activity, or is he simply being fined by the IRS?
Secondly, is there any indication at all that he has been given any sort of special standing due to his coziness with the Administration, or is his situation fairly typical?
So first off, I have to say that before reading this thread, the amount of mental cycles I gave towards thinking about Sharpton’s tax problems was hovering around nada. So my Googling and light reading is probably fairly flimsy. I’d be interested to hear what other folks have found.
The main article seems to be this one in the NYT back in November. It certainly gives the impression that he personally owes millions in taxes, and a slew of Fox News articles hold him up against other people who have gone to jail for owing less.
But as far as I can tell, Sharpton doesn’t actually owe the taxes in question, his companies do. Because he was one of the founders or on the board or whatever, he has liens against his personal assets until the corporate taxes are accounted for. It may seem like a subtle distinction, but legally it’s a very different thing from personally receiving money into your account and lying about it to the IRS.
Also, owing taxes and fines is not the same thing as being charged with a crime, even if you blatantly cheated. The IRS has the power of the law behind it and can certainly request that the Justice Department come down on you like a ton of bricks. But punishing tax cheats is not really part of their charter – the IRS first and foremost is there to extract the Federal Government’s tax money from your pockets. If you cheat, it’s their job to catch you… but once you are caught, the IRS’ primary responsibility is to extract the tax money (plus whatever fines). Generally, they will try and work a payment schedule rather than turning you over to the cops because it’s better to have you free and working to pay off the taxes rather than in jail and costing the taxpayers money.
Finally, it’s not quite clear to me how much of his current woes come from what his PAC owes to the Federal Election Committee. The PACs seem to operate in this weird quasi-world where no one ever pays fines or taxes because all that money flows through the FEC, which is apparently toothless. Sharpton joins a long list of fell presidential candidates like Gingrich or Cain who also owe the FEC a nice chunk of change that no one ever expects anyone to pay off.
My bad at not realizing that Desslock actually called him a bond villain. I don’t even know what that means. I misattributed the source of hyperbole.
Sure it’s bad but people (or corporations) aren’t usually jailed for it. The government has tools to extract that money effectively by force, and furthermore if the person who owes back taxes is cooperating even nominally that is usually enough to avoid jail time. Even if he refused cooperate, I think the biggest sentence he could receive is 5 years, not 20.
I honestly don’t know what the appropriate punishment is, but I feel like it’s gotta be greater than whatever is happening now, which seems virtually nothing.
It just doesn’t seem fair that you can not pay taxes, get caught, and then be like, “Oh, sorry… my bad. I’ll pay those.” and then just continue to not pay taxes and go further into debt to the government.
Possibly I don’t have enough info to say, but I would note that Sharpton recognizes that he owes these taxes and has made statements that he is trying to pay them.
If it was just some accounting error, then whatever… that’s fine. Pay the back taxes and penalty fees, and move on… but the fact he keeps doing it is what pisses me off. The fact that he started a business, used it to buy himself shit, and then it was shut down for IT not paying taxes… and then he just started up ANOTHER business, which then repeated the exact same behavior?
I’m not a fan of taxes, BUT I PAY THEM, because that’s the law. For someone like Sharpton, who argues for increased taxes on various people, to then not even pay his own taxes? That’s like super double bullshit.
I totally agree he should pay his taxes. The government should use the tools at their disposal to extract those taxes (which they seem to be doing), and he and his businesses should be investigated (which seems to be ongoing).
Whether NBC gives him a show or Obama listens to what he has to say, that’s another thing entirely. People can not pay their taxes and still have useful things to say, and people can pay their taxes and give terrible advice. I’d be more suspicious of his status as a baptist minister, but you Americans are all kooky with religion so you apparently take people like that seriously.
That’s the perfect term, lol
I think that part of the issue here, which is where the fact that he has a show on MSNBC comes into play, is that Sharpton gets paid a bunch of money to be on TV. This source (I have no idea how reliable this is, as I’ve never seen this site prior to now) estimates his net worth at $5 million, with an annual salary from MSNBC alone at around half a million a year.
So the thing is, it’s not like he’s poor and can’t afford to pay taxes. He’s a rich dude.
And yet, despite earning over half a million a year, he’s not reducing the amount of taxes he ultimately owes to the government… he’s actually increasing that amount somehow. Which means that he’s continuing to not only fail to pay back taxes, but he’s not even paying current taxes.
I thought you were conflating tax planning with criminal tax evasion. What billionaire criminals tax evaders are you referencing, or are you just stating that if they exist they would be worse than Sharpton? So is the bubonic plague, I guess.
edit: and it’s worth noting that there are significant differences between Sharpton’s and Snipes’ cases, Sharpton is not paying his taxes on time, which the government can and is pursuing (via liens and pressure on sharpton to pay). Paying your taxes late (even very late!!) does not usually result in jailtime, and even the penalties can be avoided if good faith is shown. Snipes refused utterly to pay taxes and submitted very obviously fraudulent tax refund claims, and subsequently went to jail for it…Snipes got three years and owed several times more than what Sharpton owes.
That’s just what he personally owes. His far more significant crime is creating one business after another that never, ever, pay taxes, and then just starting another one to start the cycle again. In case that’s not clear - none of his businesses have ever paid any tax - he just loots them and skates away without repercussion and does it again, and again, and again. It’s not like he just had a business that failed and owed tax at the time - they are all deliberately defrauding the government by never paying taxes until shut down, at which point he just creates a new one.
I will pick one literally at random… yes they do exist (edit: I’ll give you one guess how much jail time that guy got)
That’s just what he personally owes. His far more significant crime is creating one business after another that never, ever, pay taxes, and then just starting another one to start the cycle again. In case that’s not clear - none of his businesses have ever paid any tax - he just loots them and skates away without repercussion and does it again, and again, and again. It’s not like he just had a business that failed and owed tax at the time - they are all deliberately defrauding the government by never paying taxes until shut down, at which point he just creates a new one.
I am only going by the NYT article. Maybe you have some other source of information, but the NYT article seems like a fairly full accounting and would put the combined amount he owes, personal + his businesses at ~4.5 million. The government seems to be actively pursuing it. If he is engaged in fraud, tax or otherwise, he should absolutely be punished with the appropriate jail time, but on the issue of back taxes alone as long as he continues to admit that he owes what he owes and works with the government to pay it then he will not likely see jail time for that.