There was one point where the guys had to get to the top of a building - that would have been a great opportunity to show the neat trick that JJ has that the others don’t, that she can fucking fly(ish) - and being superstrong, she could have carried the other two guys. That would have been a uniquely JJ superhero “moment” that I felt they really left on the table.
The lift bit at the end wasn’t bad, but non-combat. Also the bit where she pushed the car through the restaurant (although you don’t actually see her doing it).
But mainly, as I said up-thread, the central problem is the fact that you get the power uses in combat, and decent enough fx, but they don’t make any difference to the fights really - and why? Because you have to keep the bloody chop-socky action going, because it’s the Hand and Ninjas. Boring. Ninjas should be cannon fodder for these guys - which is why the 5 fingers should have had a higher power level to give some real challenge. (Madame Gao made a good fist of it - or rather palm of it - for a moment, but a glass cannon like her should have been more protected by some more tanky member of the 5.)
IOW, ideally, I’d have liked to have seen a rock/paper/scissors approach, where the villains are fairly evenly-matched with our heroes one-on-one individual power-level wise, but our heroes switch abilities round to attack villains that have a weakness to their particular ability.
Ultimately, this was pretty disappointing. The Iron Fist stuff felt under baked as a main story line, the Daredevil bits weren’t used well, and Luke Cage and Jessica Jones may as well have not even been there - from a narrative perspective. The shoehorning in of Misty and the police side story were flat.
The action was possibly the worst of the Netflix series. It was poorly choreographed, badly lit, and never felt like anything more than television combat. Nothing like the awesome choreography of the Daredevil run, the awesome “I am a brick wall” solidness of Luke Cage, or even the somewhat poor fluid Kung fu of Iron Fist.
The only bits that were redeeming were the character interactions, specifically between the pairings of DD/JJ and LC/IF.
I’m really disappointed in how they handled Cage and Jones. They had two supers, but never, ever made it feel that way.
When they showed Murakami at the start and Alexandra was speaking to him about hunting a bear solo, I thought, “Oh good! The Hand has someone with super strength, too.” And then they played him up as this amazing hunter. I figured he’d be like Kraven. Instead, he just did martial arts, like all the others. He did get a kick on Jessica that hurt her, but other than that? Nothing. He was really a missed opportunity.
I can only think I saw literally a completely different show than you guys. I loved JJ here and thought it was a massive upgrade from how she was her own show. The same with Dany Rand. Action wise and as a character he was basically redeemed as character I cared about wanting more of now.
The show while not great but was still good overall in bringing an eclectic group like this together and makes me look forward to upcoming seasons. I’ll go 7/10.
Oh, I liked it just fine. I agree with your 7/10. And I also agree that it improved Iron Fist significantly. I actually really enjoyed his interactions with Luke, and would be all for a Power Man and Iron Fist mini-team up.
Iron Fist was definitely less unbearable in The Defenders. And Jessica Jones was the best part of the entire show.
Antagonists are essential to shows constructed like this. Fisk was amazing, as was Kilgrave. Sinister and smart, intimidating but inherently human enemies. The Punisher and Cottonmouth come in a far second-place, Diamondback third, and the Hand in the end was an empty shell, with no real characterization beyond “evil ninjas”.
7/10 is too generous. I’d rate the Netflix marvel shows:
JJ: 10. Crossover appeal, a great show in its own right even if you aren’t a fan of the genre.
Daredevil S1: 9
Luke Cage: 6
Daredevil S2: 5
Defenders: 5
Iron Fist: 2. And only saved from a 1 by Colleen Wing, who was the only shining light in the entire boring-ass show.
I mostly agree with Stusser’s rankings, although I would give both JJ and DDS1 a 9.5 - I rate DDS1 a bit higher than Stusser due to Donofrio and JJS1 a bit lower due to the meandering middle “can’t kill Killgrave” section. I would give DDS2 a 6 and Defenders a 4.
DDS1 and JJS1 are the top by far, Luke Cage and DDS2 are pretty good but flawed, Defenders was a disappointment and Iron Fist… Worst Iron Fist Ever.
I haven’t seen Defenders yet, but I really liked Daredevil season 2, even more than the first – thought they adapted Elektra and the Punisher well, and even the Hand were at their most interesting in that series. Like every series to date, the ending was weak. I’d give the first Daredevil an 8 and the 2nd season a 9, but otherwise agree with Stusser’s ratings.
I’d also swap Colleen for Ward as the only worthwhile aspect of Iron Fist. Bleh.
Well, maybe Madame Gow, who has been strong whenever she’s appeared.
I think that’s basically it: the whole Hand thing is a weak villain that diminished DD2 (even though it was the better-paced of the two seasons, and had a magnificent Punisher) and this.
The Black Sky being Elektra was just massively disappointing, both in DD2 and this - the way they built it up in DD2, I was expecting something like the Filth in TSW, or some weirdly magical character or something.
Having Elektra turn out to be a big baddie would have been fine, but don’t tease us with all that ominous mystical, magical shit if it turns out that she’s just their slightly-better-than-average-ninja-assassin.
Seriously, that’s such a weird statement. Ward was the only reason to watch that series. Colleen was strictly eye candy at best.
I did like watching Elektra go all out evil, even if it just seemed out of place. As soon as Weaver said ‘and whoever that daredevil is’ I knew that would come back and bite her. I however did not expect it to be 10 seconds later. That caught me flat footed.
I think I’m done with these Marvel/Netflix shows. I felt pretty “meh” about Luke Cage. I was okay, but not thrilled with Daredevil S2. I actively disliked Iron Fist. I didn’t much care for this either.
I’d watch another season of Daredevil or Jessica Jones, but I’m pretty sure that going forward, they’re really going to push the interconnected nature of the series more, so I think that’s it for me.
Exactly, they went out all talking about how unbelievably powerful she was, and her only powers were… wait, did she have any powers? I didn’t see anything. She’s just good at martial arts.
Did they ever explain what “The Black Sky” is? Stick built it up heavily in DD2, and it played a huge role in the Defenders, but WTF is it? Seems mostly an unexplained maguffin. Yeah, Elektra got a bit faster and stronger, but is that it?
For a little while I thought maybe that was all part of the plan, and I still wish it had been. I thought maybe Alexandra realized the best way to deal with the rest of the Hand resisting her plan was to take herself out of the picture and let the “Black Sky” run things, and then have Black Sky resurrect her when it was all over (whoever was left standing).
That would’ve at least seemed clever, but instead, nope. Alexandra is just some kind of idiot with no apparent powers or leadership abilities who’s blindsided and killed, but only just before the other idiots of Hand probably would’ve done the same.
Just finally started watching this, before I dive into Jessica Jones season 2, and am really surprised at how much I am liking it (4 episodes in). At least I really liked the 3rd and 4th episodes, seeing people meet each other and the team assemble.
I’ve realized that as a lifelong Marvel diehard, these series (and the movies) are most enjoyable when there are multiple characters/heroes and not just one. It’s why the Avengers movies are so watchable, and one of the reasons I liked Thor Ragnarok more than the other Thors (although many reasons for that), but it’s also one of the reasons I am more of a fan of Iron Man 2 (introduced the Black Widow and Fury), as well as Daredevil season 2 (which gave us both Elektra and Punisher), which are less common opinions. And liked Iron Man in Spider-man Homecoming. And Civil War and Winter Soldier are my favorite movies.
Even though I think the recent solo movies have been decent (Dr Strange and Ant-man; haven’t yet seen BP), but just not as interesting as seeing multiple Marvel characters. I
Chris Hemsworth has a very underrated comedic timing, which T:R used to great effect. It also leans into the absurdity and cosmic aspects that a comic about a literal Norse god from a spacefaring empire should. The very premise is absurd, so lean in to the fantastic elements.
I did not like the first Thor. Thor 2 was far more enjoyable, but still mid tier at best. This was the first I really liked, rather than just being vaguely entertained.
