I’m guessing that the dealers ordered their usual mix of trim levels, but with the craziness lately they sold all the most popular models and were left with the stuff that usually sits for a while before it sells. Only this time, there is no resupply so it sort of spirals down to nothingness. I guess too that dealers often cannot get unlimited numbers of any trim they like, as allotments are spread out over the whole dealer network. They are bound to wind up with a number of less-desirable configurations, or nothing at all.
It could very well have been supply chain issues. Usually by the time you get to test drives, that’s the car/trim you’re looking at. So seeing back-to-back-to-back customers going out in that one car seemed funny.
Our local Chevy dealer is on one of the main drags through town, and it has been interesting to watch their supply dwindle. Their front parking lot has 12 rows of stalls between the sidewalk and the dealership’s front door. Now, the row closest to the sidewalk is full, and the other 11 are completely empty. Among the cars filling those spaces are six used Ford Mustangs, none more than a few years old. $5 gas is probably making people reconsider the fun of having a V8 sports coupe.
If it’s any consolation, nobody was buying sports coupes anyway. In general, sales for sedans and coupes have dropped to near zero in favor of CUVs/SUVs with only a few exceptions.
Five bucks for gas? Must be in the hurricane affected part of the country? Premium is three something here.
Not “nobody,” because clearly there are lots of folks who still want these cars, but yeah, in terms of the volume car companies want and need, it might as well be insignificant. For those of us who loathe the high-riding, bloated, generally ugly and overweight SUVs that have come to dominate the market, it is profoundly depressing to see how the confluence of EVs and market trends is rapidly narrowing the choices we have.
While many companies seem to have interesting looking EVs in the pipeline somewhere–and by interesting I mean cars that look and feel like enthusiast machines, not just cars that by virtue of electrification can accelerate wicked fast–many of them are in six-figure territory. Most at least have a few affordable cars like this somewhere in the design stage, but the economics of them needed to recoup their R&D with mass market sales means we probably won’t get a lot of choice for a while. So every time one of the car mags does an “upcoming EV models” feature, it’s an endless parade of SUVs, trucks, and either boring sedans or hideously expensive sporty things.
I mean, I’ve come to terms with the fact that my current manual transmission Type R is probably going to have to last me as long as possible, as it is unlikely I’d be able to get anything comparable in a few years. But if I have to give up my third pedal, I damn sure don’t want to do it for any of the affordable EVs on the market right now. Every single one of them leaves me pretty much cold for one reason or another. The ones I do think would be interesting all cost as much as a freakin’ house. Well, what a house used to cost at least.
Bay Area California is very close to $5/gallon right now. I think I saw $4.95/gallon a few days ago. It might be over $5 in San Francisco proper.
This is from July:
No wonder you folks want electric cars so badly over on the west coast.
Yeah, in the US a few sports cars are just kept around for their image, and sedans are basically dead in favor of SUVs and tall sedans - sorry, I mean “crossovers” (Tesla didn’t get the memo, since the 3 and the S keep selling well despite the Y, X, and upcoming Luxor-inspired pickup). Ford canceled all of its cars except the Mustang in one shot in April 2018 (technically, they kept one other car, the Focus Active, but it was the taller crossover version, so not really a car. That turned out not to matter, because in August 2018 it was canceled - being made in China, it was a victim of the trade war). GM has slowly killed off most of its cars but keeps spending a ton on the Corvette (fun fact: the generations after the Boomers hate chrome, so not only is the C8 the first mid-engine Corvette, it is the first without any chrome). I think 2023 is supposed to be the last year of the Camaro, if they don’t can it sooner because of the micro-controller shortage. Stellantis disbanded Fiat/Chrysler’s SRT division, so no more fire-breathing giant V8s from Dodge (they unveiled the electric Challenger, but let’s see one on the strip against a Tesla Plaid). The Japanese manufacturers long ago started stepping away from sports car manufacturing (one of them used a Yamaha engine that was a complete disaster, I forget which one), and after a nearly 20-year break the Toyota Supra is back in the US (originally withdrawn because it could not meet the 1998 CARB emission standards), but it is basically a re-bodied BMW Z4.
The Europeans are hanging in there, but at prices that put two-door sports cars out of the reach of most buyers. Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, can we even include exotic makes like Ferrari & Lambo in this conversation?
Edit: I forgot about the upcoming new Z (Z35) from Nissan. Looking good on paper, 400hp, and even has the option of a 6-speed manual. Top trim level will be around $50k, I think.
There’s a general screwing of the consumer on gas prices in California, but there are a couple of other excuses the oil companies use. There are two formulas of gas, Summer and Winter, to meet the strict emission standards. Refineries outside of California generally don’t make these, so supply is limited to in-state production despite ravenous demand. The refineries also have to switch to manufacturing the upcoming formula several weeks before each deadline, so twice a year prices spike as the existing supply of the current formula is used up and not replenished. Shockingly, while the prices spike almost immediately, it takes about two months for the spike to diminish after the shift to the new abundant supply of the correct formula.
The other thing was voting for even higher gas taxes in 2017. It is tied to the California CPI, and goes up each July. It started out at 12 cents/gallon immediately after voter approval in November 2017. In July 2021, it reached 51.1 cents/gallon. Electric vehicles don’t get completely off the hook, the ballot initiative also added an annual $100 Zero-Emissions Vehicle Fee. It also increased the sales tax on diesel by 4%, and added an excise tax of 18 cents/gallon on diesel (IIRC). When I drove to Phoenix in October 2019, at the California/Arizona border fuel prices were something like $1.25 apart. Bad time to own a truck stop on the California side.
Right before the pandemic hit, they started floating trial balloons about an even larger gas tax increase. This was because the estimated repair need was actually something like $200 billion over the next 20 years, far from the $51 billion the new tax would raise in that time. That talk vanished when the pandemic hit, but I assume it will come back eventually.
This was also a thing in Illinois, though I don’t know the full refinery pipeline.
That said funding road repairs through gas taxes fundamentally no longer work, as the shifts to things like EVs, hybrids, etc. has decoupled the previous simple rough approximation of vehicle impact on road surface with funds to repair roads. Now it is no longer strictly true that vehicle weight x miles correlate with gas usage, and so gas taxes need to shift to a more registration based fee. Oregon already does this to a degree, my plates on my Insight were about double my wife’s Fusion. But moving completely to road maintenance through registration fees based on mileage, and using gas tax for environmental impacts of emissions is ultimately a direction we should go.
A tax based on miles driven would be one way to handle it, but that would require some sort of tracking and if you though anti-maskers were bad, yikes.
I’m quite confident that cars have been equipped, with mileage tracking for about 75 years. It is called an odometer. At registration time you take a picture of your odometer and then a year later take another picture. Subtract the difference, multiply by the mileage tax, and included it in your vehicle registration fees. A variety of spot checks could be performed to deter any fraud.
You’re right on the dot about the need for a wider restructuring. EVs generally weigh a lot more, I assume causing more wear on the road. I still have my 2017 Honda Accord, and the outside dimensions are very similar to my 2019 Tesla 3 Dual Motor Long Range. Both seat five, but the Tesla is ~22% heavier.
With the gas tax at $0.511/gallon, the extra $100 tax for a ZEV only covers about 196 gallons of gas. The Honda is a 4-cylinder, so it averages about 27 miles to the gallon. That means after about 5,300 miles I’m paying less tax despite the assumed extra wear on the streets.
The Ford dealer near me has a $10k markup on the turbo-4 Mustangs, and a ask-and-we-will-tell-you price on the V8s (yikes!). So there is a market for sports coupes but its smaller than in the past.
Supertanker mentions the Z4/Supra, the new Nissan Z, the Vette, and the Europeans. He forgot the recently announced next gen BRZ/FRS which to my eye looks very cool. He also missed the MX5 which continues to do well for Mazda. You could also add in the hot hatches like the Civic Si/R, the VW GTI, the MINI S and JCW, and the Veloster N. All of these are faster than even, and pretty cool.
This is my segment for sure. I drive a CTR, and have owned a GTI, a Golf R, a WRX, a Mustang GT, and a Z28 among others. While all of the vehicles you mention are still around, they are on borrowed time. Certainly as ICE vehicles with (largely) manual transmissions they are doomed. There is great potential for EV versions, but so far little evidence of actual products that capture the look, feel, spirit, and engagement of these cars at anything like an affordable price.
It’s worth noting too that while there is a significant modder/hot-rod contingent within this segment, that really is interested in track or competition performance, the majority of people buying these cars care more for the overall experience and broad-based performance than for straight line acceleration. I’d wager that even buyers of the super powerful Dodge Hemi muscle cars mostly do so for the look, feel, vibe, and presence of those machines rather than any real intent to hit the drag strip. EVs smoke ICE cars pretty much across the board in acceleration from a stop, absolutely. That isn’t really the point for many buyers in this segment though. Attitude, appearance, how it makes you feel, and stuff like that are super important.
I fall into the track performance segment. I’ve autocrossed and tracked my Miata quite as bit, belong to the SCCA, and attend motorsports events (everything from dirttrack to sportscars to Indycars)
A Tesla won a national autocross trophy a year or so ago, so the EVs can do well there. A Tesla also did well in Pikes Peak hillclimb (no declining O2 levels to worry about). However on the track they run out of juice quick (or overheat).
I’ll be holding on to my ICE as long as I can.
But that method would more severely impact those not in major metro cities or in rural locations because … wait a second. I see where you guys are going with this. I’m on board.
I couldn’t find any mention of this on the forum so I thought this would be the best place to ask: does anyone here have experience with getting ceramic coating on their car? I bought a new car and am considering getting the ceramic coating. Any thoughts appreciated.
I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in 47 states and the District of Columbia.
Which states IS it legal in, that’s my second question.