This isn’t “new” - CCP have been working with White Wolf on this MMO for ages now. It’s just the specifics that are new.
And I’ll be amazed if this is anything like other MMOs. CCP’s whole USP is that they made EVE which is utterly unlike all the dikumud clones. Hiring them to make a WoW clone would be the dumbest thing ever.
I have more confidence in CCP to do a good job with this than any other developers I can think of. Possibly Turbine, as they did a great job keep the spirit of Tolkien alive in LoTRO but there the gameplay is still too derivative of conventional MMOs.
CCP understands worldbuilding. I saw a clip of one of the guys talking about how they dreamed up the setting for Eve Online and it’s clear that what people think of as Eve Online is just the “easiest” part of what they’re hoping to accomplish in the long run. They think quite big and have a strong sense of style as well.
There’s just a part of me that does worry that, well, to a carpenter all the world’s a nail. It would be easy to just fall back on building things around a PvP assumption since that’s what they’ve done before. I don’t anticipate this but it is a concern.
CCP has done some amazing things with EVE so I have faith that they can make this game more interesting then other MMO’s out there.
Explain to me how/why Requiem is “far more grown up” than the old WoD, seriously.
Not trolling, just asking, because for me Requiem is merely a watered down and simplistic version of oWoD but i’m open to constructive discussion.
Well, it’s all about opinion, so not everyone is going to agree. I find that Requiem does a better job of maintaining its themes of struggle against self and isolation, whereas Masquerade almost always turned into superheroes/antiheroes with fangs. The oWoD games suffered from that, there was so much excess that almost all the lines ended up being superheroes with x monster trait.
I also like the new world of darkness being built on mortals and the incredible amount of support given to mortals. And the combat system being fast so combat doesn’t put the brakes on everything for an hour. And no fishmalks.
I liked that they put in a system to enforce that Vampires distrust each other and don’t get along.
I also liked that they HAD TO PUT IN A SYSTEM to enforce that.
What’s this system to force distrust?
When two vampires meet, their beasts vie for dominance automatically since they are predators treading on someone’s turf. If one is stronger, it wants to eat the other and the weaker wants to flee. If they’re approximately the same they both get really edgy since they don’t know the likely outcome of a fight.
It enforces how vampires should view one another, instead of how your average WoD “Batman with fangs and his dark Justice League” character tends to handle it.
So players are forced into conflict by the rules? You have to engage in combat?
Won’t this make roleplaying into a rather solitary experience?
Conflict doesn’t necessarily mean combat.
That also makes OWoD sound like a better fit for the more socially oriented game it sounds like they’re trying to set up. That you aren’t automagically forced into a fight or flee mentality upon encountering another player is probably for the good. Subtle outcomes, when conflict is triggered by code or rules systems, generally aren’t the rule for the average player. They generally reach for the pointiest thing available and get to stabbing if it’s to their advantage.
You aren’t forced to run away or fight (unless you fail your self control roll or something like that). What the rule creates is that vampires should have a level of mistrust towards each other, since they’re all in competition over limited resources. It’s something that oWoD tried to create but fell apart in most players in favor of viewing it as the Undead X-Men, fighting against a world that hates and fears them (for no good reason! MY Vamp PC doesn’t even KILL humans!). And, yes, Brian, then stabbing the Sabbat or other whatsit that is their enemy of the week.
That when they made the nWoD WW felt that they needed a rule in place to create this dynamic, that while vampires can work together (the reaction fades with familiarity) they should always be watching their backs, says boatloads about what they saw their game turn into.
You mean the popular and successful game that’s getting an MMO based on it?
Edit: Okay, cheap shot and unfair. But really in OWoD players could play the game they wanted to play, more or less, they could be sexy misunderstood superheroes of the night or they could be angsty, doomed, and paranoid figures deeply immeshed in plotting and fratricide. Usually some combination of the above. I know it drove the developers nuts seeing their game turn into something less “horrific” than they wanted it to be, hence the steady escalation of shock oriented content and the occasional “you’re doing it wrong” editorializing in some of their books.
But, it did seem to be what the players wanted and they could well season it to suit their own tastes. Not everyone has great taste but that’s unlife in the big city. As an MMO roleplayer coming to grips with this and realizing it’s my issue, not theirs, was just about my first order of business.
Hey, if they want to play Twilight/Buffy/Anita Blake/X-men it is totally their right to. However, when the vast majority of them get pretentious about what “mature roleplayers” they are over it, I reserve the right to mock them for playing that game as I did when I was 16.
Basically, if you read all the non-rules parts of Vampire: the Masquerade and come away with “Man, I want to spend all 5 background points in Generation so that I am more uber and then figure out what kewl powerz I can buy” then yes, I think you are in fact playing it wrong.
Just a reminder: vampires are made up. There is nothing that vampires SHOULD be. If you are saying that’s how other predators act, I’m not sure. Cats don’t always fight. Do sharks?
I’m fairly certain he’s talking about vampires within the overall context of WoD fiction. His point makes perfect sense.
Ah, yes. In WoD, they wanted you to explore the isolation of vampire existence. I was lucky in that I got in a group with players/storyteller that wanted to do that. However, I’ve also played with the superhero/powergamer types too, and they are quite annoying. The system really allowed for that though. And I think that once WW saw that players wanted that, they started really pushing it, with elder disciplines and the like. Can’t blame them. It sold. I think the same is true for the MMO. Angie may be right in noting that Requiem forces a bit more of the introspection. That’s not why I don’t like it; I do like that part. I just don’t like the more generic feel of the system. I liked the clans and the radically different feel they provided.
Ultimately, though, they may be favoring Masquerade because it’s MUCH easier to fit into a traditional MMO framework and allow people to play X-Men, as people are putting it.
I encourage you to delve more deeply into Requiem. The criticism you make of clans and the “generic” feel of Requiem is oft-made but unfounded, I think. Bloodlines and the existing 6 major/4 minor clans are just as well thought out as the clans in V:tM, with a lot more room to play around in interesting ways. The clans in V:tM were certainly more iconic, but that doesn’t make them automatically better. Seriously, give Requiem a more thorough look.
Fair enough. I don’t have a group to play it with right now, but I do have the book. I think I prefer the more noble view of vampires, rather than the bestial. Maybe I was hoping for more of that in Requiem and didn’t see it. I do like how it allows for more player creation in the bloodlines, and how it allows for variety within each clan by having the different paths and such people can take.
All of the nWoD books really need to be played to be understood well, and I think that at first blush they could appear less than perfect. The only one that’s actually true for is Werewolf, where the more rigid character options and metaplot were kind of the focus of the entire game. Forsaken sucks balls, imo.