Nioh 2 - Turn demons into loot again

Set bonuses are huge but they don’t really come into their own until Dream of the Wise and Nioh. Things do start to get spiced up in Dream of the Demon, you’ll just be looking to replace your Divine graces with Ethereal ones once you hit Wise.

IMO, Wise is where builds really take off since you have access to the Ethereal graces which are really impactful. That being said, as an Onmyo user something like Onmyo Austerity can really make a difference. Having Devigorate-lite on hit is pretty huge. You’re talking about a 30% damage reduction enemies can do with a lot of uptime. Once you hit Nioh, this set gets spiced up even further with Empowered Onmyo which can really change the way you approach the game as a caster (Tsukuyomi has it as well).

Has much survavility has possible trough the use of heavy armour and life regen on gaining amrita. Extra damage gaining amrita. Fast regen of the purple line so I can do yokai cores skills often.

My inventory (4 tabs) full of grendes, bombs, scrolls to gain more life regen or resistence to damage.

Double hatchets with fire damage, medium position, I use this set on defense.
Kurasigama with paralysis damage for offense.

Decorations and artifacts boost all of the above, and paralisis gain on enemies (so they get paralyzed more and sooner)

Range weapons: bow and arrows, canon. I oneshoot small enemies, and 4 shooted big enemies. I would often use the scroll for explosive arrows.

With this setup, I was hard to kill, surviving to mistakes, rarely getting one shotted. Being able to do range damage to gain some purple sauce to be able to use yokai skills. Thrown a lot of explosives at boses and enemies.

I would start a battle against a boss buffing my defense and throwing bombs at the boss. Once I get the gist of the boss, and If I am still alive, would use openings to apply damage. Then stay alive, do more damage when possible, stay alive. Reapply buffs when the effects end.

I played tons of coop. So I got carried on some bosses that would have been difficult alone.

I started playing Nioh 1. Is funny after playing Nioh 2, like learning greek after learning latin. Harder in some ways, more flexible in places, less in others. I don’t know if will play for long, since I want to do other things with my free time and a Nioh game takes too much of it.

What’s the difficulty like in Nioh 2? I am not into the Souls-like game design approach of repeating the same thing over and over to get past a boss and on steam this is tagged as both “difficult” and “souls-like” so I’ve avoided it. But I’m all about loot and that part appeals to me.

I personally feel it’s much less punishing than the likes of Dark Souls. It isn’t an easy game, but it’s definitely manageable, partly because you also have a lot more options in how to build your character compared to DS. Or at least that’s how I feel.

I, on the other hand, cannot fathom how anyone would say this. I probably have two hundred and fifty hours collectively between the various souls games from Demon’s through Bloodborne, every boss, and Nioh 2 makes me rage and not just the bosses, either. It contains what I consider a ton of bullshit, like incredibly fast windups on attacks that come after a large pause so there’s just no way you could see it coming, and the tracking on grab attacks is just fuuuuuck yoooouuu. I think it’s much less fair. However, it’s got much deeper systems and I think the bullshit is worth putting up with as long as your blood pressure isn’t too high.

Which is curious indeed because I mean it. I played all Souls games, never finished any of them because I would get exhausted by the “git gud” kind of approach. I finished Nioh 2 and I plan on going on through most new game plus things because I love the game. And I happen to think it’s a lot less unfair than any of the Souls games.

So yeah, it is curious. Maybe there’s something about the movesets, or level layouts, or objetives, or loot that make me prefer the Nioh games. Perhaps it only goes to show how individual perks and preferences can drastically change the perception and/or enjoyment of a game. And I’m fine with that. I won’t ever question why someone would love Souls more than Nioh. It just isn’t my case.

What do you think is unfair about souls?

Maybe unfair isn’t the term - it’s more that it relies so much on trial and error that I find it tense and tiring. Oh hey, there’s a hidden enemy there you couldn’t possibly have seen ever, and you’ll only know it was there after you die. Oh hey, that’s a cool dragon. Hey, it torched the whole place and I died. “Cool”, let’s go there again.

Now, as I said, it isn’t necessarily unfair. It’s the way the game is designed, in a way. But after a while it wears out for me. Which, I guess, is why I never finished any Souls games.

Nioh 2 has some of those things, but it’s… different? I can spot most, perhaps even all enemies. I have more options in terms of blocking or dodging or engaging at range. It’s easier to find gear you want without going to specific places or facing specific enemies. All that means I can adapt better and play to my own strengths - which you can do in Dark Souls too, but only AFTER you’ve played most of it.

Interestingly enough, I did feel that general feeling of “unfairness” in Nioh 1, to an extent. In Nioh 2 it’s pretty much gone, really. And I’m not entirely sure what changed to make me feel like that. Maybe the way spirits work now? Maybe because the ocurrence of “traps” is much lower and easier to spot and adapt to? I don’t know. But I enjoyed it a whole lot more.

Well, I’m not going to argue that your impression is wrong or anything, but while it’s true that Souls games have hidden enemies, Nioh 2 has that in spades, too, and they attack much faster! Also the amount of times a fight took place on a narrow cliff edge, bridge or other eminently fall-offable space was too damn high.

Point being, @Bruce_Barnett, as far as difficulty goes, opinions very much vary.

Yes indeed! It’s a personal thing for sure. A close friend of mine told me Nioh 2 was more difficult than Souls and Nioh 1 and Code Vein and everything. That wasn’t my experience at all, but I’m not saying I’m right and everyone is wrong. Just that these kinds of things happen. Nioh 2 clicked with me for some reason. I don’t expect other people to feel like that, but I suppose there are some who might. ;)

Yeah, Nioh 2 felt waaaaay less “bullshit” to me than any of the Dark Souls games.

It’s a hard game but you have more tools/approaches than you do in Dark Souls. It’s less about memorizing patterns, although understanding how different bosses/monsters attack is going to be a huge help. It just felt a little less focused on that exclusively.

I found the initial part of the game quite hard. The first two bosses really took me a while to down. Then there was a breakthrough moment as I got accustomed to the game and acquired more tools in the game where it became a fair amount easier than Dark Souls. It would oscillate a bit but overall I found it not as hard as the Dark Souls games. Still quite challenging, but with the Diablo-ness of the systems you can kind of outlevel/outpower content that you struggle with to some degree.

I glossed over this earlier. As far as blocking or dodging, both are integral to Souls, so I’m not sure what you mean by more options, but engaging at range is not really optional in Nioh but mandatory if you don’t want your ass handed to you on a plate, in my opinion. Ranged combat was always very much lacking for me in Souls games, but if you don’t pick off enemies, especially ranged ones, in Nioh, you’re gonna get mobbed and/or pincushioned.

I again stress that it’s a very worthwhile game that’s much deeper than Souls in some ways (loot for sure, the weapon styles and mix and match moves and on and on), and I look forward to engaging with it again, but the claims of “less bullshit” make me nearly unprecedentedly boggle! To boil it down, for my part the souls games set up an environment and say, do this or don’t, whatever, I don’t care. It is supremely indifferent to the player’s woes. To me, Nioh actively fucks with you. Taunts you. Hates you. But sort of jokingly, like an older brother.

I agree & disagree with you both on your points. Nioh 2 is harder, but the solution for any challenging engagement or environment without usually presents itself on first attempt.

Often that solution is as suggested, don’t just melee wade into mobs but use the variety of ranged options to either neutralise individuals outright, or aggro them to advance on & engage with you One-on-One in a more conducive location for you.

In this respect, I find the comparable options (or lack thereof) in DS leads to a “less fair” experience, along with “less fair” bosses. I have finished both Nioh 1 & 2 in several iterations of New Game+, whereas I’ve abandoned both DS2 & 3 before completion, after repeated “boss skill-checks”.

… and Bloodborne after countless attempts at The Orphan of Kos.

Orphan was brutal, except for, I think, @Rock8man, for whom he was nbd, much to my astonishment.

I was way over-leveled by that point, so it’s not really a fair assessment.

So was I!

Hah, bosses in these sorts of games are funny like that. Horror story after horror story about running into Gorefist as your first boss in Remnant of the Ashes and I had him down in about 10 minutes and didn’t understand what the fuss was about. Yet other bosses that people breezed through I struggled with SO bad.

Nioh 2 is really a couple of games in one to me. The first game is the one you play before you have enough stat points and equipment for a real build. That is a very hard game. You don’t know the levels or the ins and outs of the enemies. It can be very difficult and frustrating. Then, combat starts to click. Shortly afterwards you are focusing on putting together and honing a build. Once you get there, the game hews closer to, say, a diablo-like, where you are pushing the boundaries of what your build can do while spending alternate time farming up your gear, levels and coefficients. This second game is much easier.

That’s a good way to put it, although I come from the character action side of things, where the first playthrough you get knocked around by all the enemies, but after a couple playthroughs you are dancing around them and killing them in stylish ways. (The first playthrough in games like that can still be pretty frustrating when you get broken out of your flow even if you don’t take enough damage for it to be a threat.)

Anyway, it’s more likely than not that you will not enjoy Nioh 2, Bruce. But eventually you might reach a game that aligns with your interests. You can cheese some of the game until you get there, and they cut out a lot of the boss runs and other annoyances of Dark Souls, but you’re still doing Dark Souls things for a while.

Thanks for all the replies. I think this goes on the wishlist and I will keep an eye out for a deep sale or hope it gets added to Gamepass at some point. I’d like to try it and see if it hooks me, but I suspect I would rage quit early on.