MS has been refining its ARM-based version of Windows, and it’s capable of running x86 code. The main issue at this point is that Qualcomm sucks.
Can it run the stuff I want it to in a way I’m accustomed to? If yes, sure.
Exactly. Users give exactly zero fucks about what’s in the box.
Word on the street is that Windows 12, due to launch next year, will focus on the ARM experience.
One of the details in the leaked FTC Xbox presentation is that the 10th gen console could be ARM, and that MS would need to make that decision soon. And since that presentation was last year, the decision has to have been made.
For something like an XBox, if there’s no need to worry about older stuff, makes much more sense.
Or maybe if they want older stuff to still be playable, they’ll go remote play.
Xbox has always focused on backwards compatibility and moving away from that would be a huuuuge mistake.
My guess is these new ARM PC chips from Nvidia and AMD will include hardware translation assistance like Apple M* CPUs to render Intel code executable with a much lower performance impact. Apple demonstrated how to do the transition correctly-- near-zero real impact to switchers even on day 1.
Yeah, I don’t think there’s any way that Microsoft will launch a next-gen console without backwards compatibility. I think those days are over, given the growth of games as a service and digital libraries.
How feasible would it be to go full Internet play for backwards compatibility?
In any case, XBox is going to be much simpler than “regular” PC. Lots of old software still around, Win32, older Windows, probably even DOS.
Backwards compatibility isn’t really an issue. MS has figured that out with emulation. The main issue is that Qualcomm’s ARM processors simply aren’t good enough. AMD and Nvidia could really change the game, especially if they do the hardware translation.
We did not get a new Surface Pro device this year, and the rumor mill is that MS is waiting for the next-gen Qualcomm CPU. Or potentially AMD/Nvidia to arrive on scene.
Emulating an OG Xbox or X360 isn’t too difficult, although the currently-available emulators aren’t very good, simply because they’re so incredibly slow. Xbox One won’t be too bad for the same reason, but emulating XSS/XSS CPUs will be a bear. They’re relatively modern AMD Zen 2. I don’t see emulation as the path forward, translation is, just like Apple.
Potentially feasible, but also unlikely, IMO. Keep in mind that both Sony and Nintendo are doing full backwards compatibility now. For Microsoft to say that you have to have an always-on internet connection to play your existing library of games, and it’ll be over cloud, would put them in a defensive position vs. competitors.
So, in short, this seems very unlikely, even if it means going with an x64 CPU for the next Xbox.
Yep. The challenge is implementing two completely different memory consistency / store ordering models on the same chip - this is not something you can do effectively with an arm reference design.
That’s essentially what Apple did, yep.
What fab do these folks plan on using? TSMC is already jammed. Also in other chip news, apparently the RISC-V company SiFive just laid off a bunch of people. Good thing I told their recruiter I wasn’t interested in moving when they pinged me a couple weeks ago.
It’s NVidia so they will have bookings at TSMC.
Yeah I’m sure it’ll be TSMC for both AMD and Nvidia. Nobody else is competitive.
So they pay TSMC more to bump someone from the schedule? I thought TSMC has been booked solid. Or they shift what they are doing with the bookings they already have? Or this just roadmap stuff, and they factor it into the future bookings.
Could easily be a less expensive TSMC process, doesn’t need to be 4nm (or 3). Zen4 is on TSMC 5nm.