If only all politicians curried votes this way… damn it I just drooled on my keyboard.
Huh - I never made a connection between democracies and Christianity. If anything, it (and religions in general) would seem to better align with an authoritarian worldview.
Huh. Do you follow this?
But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will tell those on his right hand, ‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?’
“The King will answer them, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you didn’t give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me in; naked, and you didn’t clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’
“Then they will also answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn’t help you?’
“Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Most certainly I tell you, because you didn’t do it to one of the least of these, you didn’t do it to me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
How about this?
Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
EDIT: I’m not trying to be snide. But even when I was a Christian, I didn’t use terms like “God’s sovereignty” and “call to obedience.” My understanding was that God’s laws were mostly for our benefit, not for God’s, so that we could live happy, healthy lives in society with each other. The Gospels don’t even discuss any of the social issues that American Christians constantly hand-wring about. I don’t think it’s possible to construct a coherent system of moral values that doesn’t take context into account; you can’t just read from the Bible–it itself is highly contextual, contradictory, and incomplete. How do you even “obey God”?
I don’t really understand this. Surely there exist right now societies that are both anathema to your beliefs and undemocratic, and you can see — albeit from a distance — what they are like. And from that same distance you can see what happens to people with your beliefs, or similar varieties of beliefs, when they live in societies that both disdain those beliefs and aren’t democratic. It isn’t some fantastic impossible realm you’re being asked to imagine. It’s the world as we know it.
This is just a friendly reminder that there are plenty of Christians and individuals who hold religious beliefs that also realize that living in a Democratic state is important to allow the freedom of religion and to be able to hold such beliefs, openly. Living an a faux Democratic state where Christian beliefs are forced down someone’s throat and other religions are persecuted and attacked is not a state that any Christian who practices their faith would desire or support. (yes I realize you smiled)
We’ve got people who are comfortable enough to share their beliefs here, which is good, but that doesn’t mean they or anyone else can fully represent.
Also, stitching together the country under a D candidate is not an admittance that you support all their values anyway. That’s part of Democracy too; we just need to find one that can hold our institutions together long enough to repair them instead of just light them up like the Republicans seem fine doing.
IL participates throughout the different forums, so it’s a very different than situation than with Malathor, Gman, etc. They only ever participated in P&R and typically did so in a way that was intended to get a rise out of people.
While I find IL’s posts in P&R to be laughably transparent his participation on the site extends beyond that.
Timex and Strollen are a couple examples on this forum. They’ve fled the Republican party because they’re actually conservatives, as opposed to Trump cultists or party loyalists.
I don’t think there’s any good faith position to defend Trump, so you really won’t see any rational defenses. It’s impossible to defend the indefensible.
At this point i don’t know how well I’d fit into the conservative description though. Socially I’m fairly progressive, and while I’m libertarian in many ways, i don’t dogmatically reject government intervention in various cases where a pure free market doesn’t function efficiently, like healthcare.
But I’m generally much more skeptical of the left than most here. I tend to think that things like uncontrolled debt actually matter, and I’m generally in favor of a strong us military.
I’m certainly not a republican though.
They’re now the right wing of the Democratic party.
I mean, an alternative take on this is that the Executive branch has decided to abandon the rule of law altogether. Maybe that turns out well (for some values of well), but maybe it’s the end of our system of government.
They’re arguing on these topics coherently and in good faith. Which means they’re not members of the Republican party. As I’ve said many times before, conservatives no longer have a voice in contemporary American politics.
This. I was really disheartened when a friend of mine, who I thought was a conservative, told me he’d vote for Donald Trump if anyone but Joe Biden got the nomination. No one with any political or moral integrity would vote for Donald Trump at this point. I can maybe be charitable and maybe give someone the benefit of the doubt back in 2016. But now? There are only three kinds of people who support Trump: assholes, cowards, and morons.
-Tom
Maybe, but there don’t seem to be very many of those conservatives either. Which means there never were, that the vast bulk of movement conservatism was just opportunism.
I endorse this remark!
…but uncontrolled debt is a Republican thing now, isn’t it? How does that make you skeptical of the left? And I don’t think anyone on the left is truly in favor of a weak US military.
This certainly describes me, the pro-life, pro-environment, anti-death penalty, anti-capitalist, small government conservative. What I consider “conservative” seems to have gotten divvied up between the radical left and the radical right, and our moderate center is now wholly distasteful to me.
And I think Trump is an abomination. While I’ll be voting for the presidential candidate of my small party (the American Solidarity Party) in 2020, when it comes to candidates who can win, I’m rooting for Elizabeth Warren. She’s not remotely conservative, but neither is Donald Trump. And she will potentially dismantle a lot of the stuff that is more poisonous in our contemporary politics, so I guess she’s my pick. Not that, as I say, I can actually vote for her in good conscience.
Only one way of rooting for someone matters.
A vote for a fringe candidate is a vote for Trump.
That’s odd, you say I voted for Trump but around here when I tell people I wrote in a fringe candidate they say I voted for Hilary. o.0
Depends on the state really.
If you lived in, say, Wisconsin? Then yeah, a vote for a fringe candidate is a vote for Trump. As @Nightgaunt lives in Colorado that is not true in the same way. And someone in California is entirely irrelevant.
With the exception of the pro-life thing, you’ve just described a mainstream Democrat. Where I live in the midwest, you can be a loyal Democrat without even the caveat on pro-life.
When Tom mentioned his ‘conservative friend’ who would only vote for the Dem candidate if it is Biden, otherwise DJT, my thought was “DJT is about as ‘conservative’ as Bernie Sanders, and he’s also completely devoid of ethics and has the morals of a shithouse rat”. And this is someone a ‘conservative’ is good voting for? Great, but don’t try to argue you’re voting for him for some high minded reason.