Pats vs. Indy

Everything else
41

Actually, upon thinking about the issue further, I’d like to narrow my earlier statement. Because while I said what I did, I don’t really in my heart of hearts feel that the Patriots are unsportsmanlike if they run up the score. (And it’s not because I’m a Patriots fan.)

It matters in college sports, because in those games, the players are (supposed to be) amateurs – and kids. In the world of professional sports, you’re being paid anyway, so suck it up and play better if you don’t want your butt reamed. And in the world of international amateur sports, well, anything goes, no?

42

Interesting read on “running up the score”

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2007/11/01/four_score_and_several_more/

43

The Patriots went for it on 4th down (twice - while leading 38-0 and 45-0!) against the Redskins, and reinserted Brady in the 4th quarter against Miami.

More debatable is how they were pushing hard on snaps in the final minute against Dallas in the redzone. One could say the game was close and Dallas was trying to win it late, but New England was up 41-27 (in the final minute) at that point, but in my mind it was unnecessary.

Unless you can find evidence that Indy was pulling the same sort of stunts back in that year, I’m going to call that article bullshit.

As for saying “yeah, it’s the NFL, you need to play better if you don’t want to get embarrassed,” (I’m trying to shorten Rimbo’s post here) my first thought is to say “Yes, but it has a trickle down effect, and what example are we setting?” And then I realized I was just saying “BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN” and I really can’t get behind that.

I hate New England. I honestly, honestly do. I really dislike how they’re using Belichick’s cheating as a rallying point. I don’t like how they run up the score. I’m sick of how much they win, and I generally don’t care for their fanbase.

They’re running up the score. But I can’t think of any logical, non emotional reason why they shouldn’t.

44

I hate all those Good V. Evil articles that ignore all the crap that the Colts have done. One of them actually bashed Brady for dating movie stars but didn’t blink an eye at Manning whoring himself out for every product under the sun.

45

It’s perfectly fine for NE to just keep scoring. Running up the score in the NFL doesn’t exist. Every single one of those players is paid for the game they are playing. You don’t worry about running up the score on another team of professionals because they are just that, professionals. And it can have a big advantage on future games. You know Indy is looking at the games the Pats have already played and trying to figure out how they are going to get a large sum of points again the Pats defense.

But yes, it’s bad for Belichick to be pushing the score, but not because of how it effects the other team, but because of how it’s going to get his players hurt, for one of the following reasons.

  1. Something random could happen through no fault of anyone. Brady is going to go down, Moss or someone or something and everyone is going to look at Belichick and wonder why he through his season away for some points he didn’t need.

  2. Teams that are losing in the fourth quarter are going to start playing to hurt the other team. Not intentionally or anything, but they are going to start calling all out blitzes on Brady when the Pats are still on the field trying to convert 4th downs and going for more touchdowns when they are already up by 28 points.

“Who cares if they score again on us, play man to man and put Brady on the ground every single play. They will get the message.”

  1. Someone could get pissed of and do something bush league. They will cut low or hit Brady in the knees, etc. This is a bad thing and shouldn’t happen, but these are aggressive men, trained to be so and none of them like losing.

It’s almost guaranteed one of those things is going to happen, the second being the most likely to me. Brady can keep throwing touchdowns all he wants, but not even his OLine of Superman can block all out blitzes and he will start taking more and more hits. It will wear him out at the very least. If Brady can’t play 100% in the post season because he’s all dinged up because Belichick likes to continue to score, it’s going to be a real shame.

We are seeing a team that is doing something no other team has ever done on offense at this point. They are already setting records. I’d hate to see them knocked off early because Belichick pushes them too hard…

46

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head Matt. If they continue running up the score beyond what is necessary for a win then some team is going to get pissed and start playing angry and start hurting Pats players, either legally or illegally.

47

I understand you’re a Patriots homer, so this arguement is probably futile, but Brady just doesn’t have the strategic football sense that Manning does. That’s not to say that Brady isn’t one of the most talented QBs to play the game in this or any era, he’s proving that admirably this season. I have nothing but respect for the guy, shattering records on the field and boinking supermodels off the field makes him the alpha male of NFL QBs hands down.

But if you read the articles about Manning, listen to the interviews with the people who work with him all the time, and watch the tape of him on the field running the Colts offense, it’s obvious that the guy would be one hell of an offensive coordinator if he wasn’t so busy with his day job. He’s got a level of football intelligence normally only found in veteran coaches, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him coaching in the NFL a few years after retirement if he gets bored at home. For several years people knocked Peyton Manning because he was an amazing QB that couldn’t “make it to the big game”, then last year he kills that little jinx with authority. Now all the sudden he’s no Tom Brady. Well that part is true at least, he’s better.

48

The NFL is supposed to be about parity. The whole league is designed so that small market teams can field a competitive team the same as large market teams. Wealth is redistributed, caps put in place and care taken to insure that everyone starts on fairly equal footing to build their team.

So to me, the Patriots domination of the NFL at this juncture proves only one thing, that many NFL franchises are grossly mismanaged. A few years back, the Patriots made a run to the Super Bowl during which they won several games by a margin of less than 7 points. Since then they’ve managed to put together a team that is now winning by a margin of over 30 points per game. Are they really that talented? Maybe. But a big part of it is also that the competition simply isn’t as strong as it was during that previous run. Look at the division the Patriots are in, New England has more wins than the other three teams combined! Look around the NFL, does it seem like more teams are struggling this year? Doesn’t it seem like many teams should be doing better than they are right now, San Diego, New Orleans, St. Louis, Washington, Cincinnati, etc.? Miami, Oakland and San Francisco are large market teams, why can’t they get their shit together and field a competitive product?

Sure injuries, suspensions and plain bad luck factor in, but I think the “Patriot’s Effect” is amplified by just how poor some of the competition is this year. Yes, New England quietly put together an amazing team, and they deserve the success they are seeing now. Are they running up the score intentionally to say “fuck you” to the NFL? Maybe, but given the track record of most of their opponents to date I’d say that mismanagement and a poor quality product have more to do with the lopsided scores than any intentional conduct on the part of the Patriots.

That said, I still hope Indy wins.

49

I love Manning, but how many years was it before he became a good QB-his 3rd year? Brady did it on game two starter and never looked back.
To say Brady doesn’t have football intelligence is just silly. he has done more with less every year but this one. What lost that game last year? Try 3 lame WR’s. Manning has had Marvin ‘the best WR in the game’(and I mean that he is) Harrison his whole playing time to lean on when he had to.
What does brady and a circus have that manning doesn’t?
2 more rings.
I think Mhath hit the nail on the head- the rest of the NFL does kinda suck this year, thus amplifying what Indy and the Pats continue to do.

50

This Michael Wilbon meme of “the Pats better be more ‘classy’ or someone will crack Brady’s knee” is some of the ugliest enthusiasm I’ve heard of. The players are professionals. To say that a classless cheapshot is inevitable (and silently desired) is an insult to NFL players. It’s true, there are a number of bad players that the league has been struggling with recently, but this kind of bullshit paints all players as thugs.

If you haven’t noticed before the Patriots are very good at handling blitzes. It’s one of the reasons why Brady is an elite QB, because he gets rid of the ball very quickly. Someone who suggests that players would deliberately violate the game rules and take a cheapshot at Brady after the play is not a fan of the NFL. No player wants to be suspended. No player wants to disrespect the game.

As to the QB intelligence debate, I don’t see how anyone can tell that without inside knowledge. Sure, the less savvy QBs in the NFL expose themselves, but for all we know, Brian Griese is the most intelligent field general.

51

I think a big reason why the Patriots are playing as hard in the 60th minute as they do in the first is because they know that the Colts are on their schedule, and that there’s a postseason, and that they need to keep in shape and ready to play a full 60 minutes when they get against those teams.

In 2005, Texas did a similar thing against some of its cupcakes by throwing the ball deep when they were up by fifty late in the game; the purpose was to keep Vince working on his throwing (because he still wasn’t a good passer yet), and to give the rest of the team practice in playing a full 60 minutes. And in the game against USC, both of those decisions paid off.

52

Not in the least. Players aren’t thugs but they are people, and people get frustrated in any competitve endeavor when the other team not only wins but rubs it in.

53

If they aren’t professional athletes, maybe.

Let’s address “rubbing it in”. You realize that going for it on 4th down is “modus operandi”, as you might put it, for the Pats. In nearly every game, you’ll see them attempt to convert on 4th at least once. They’ve done this for years. It’s not an attempt to piss off the opposition, it’s a belief that your drive does not have to end on 4th down, despite what the conventional wisdom says.

Kicking a field goal in those late game situations is putting meaningless points on the board. Continuing a drive for a touchdown results in equally meaningless points, but consists of much more meaningful plays than kicking a field goal. The Pats are continuing to play as they would if the score were tied, not altering their play in order to “rub it in”.

54

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the Patriots’ actions. As Rimbo said, they pretty much have to get in the habit of making sure their best players can finish because when they play a team like Indy they are going to need to be in that kind of shape since falling apart late in the game is what did them in last year against the Colts. Also they are doing the football world a favor by highlighting exactly how horrible most of the league is. Maybe consistent and hideous ass-kicking by the likes of the Pats and the Colts are what these other teams need to get their asses in gear and get the fans in those markets pissed off enough to demand improvement.

55

Although I agree that when the Pats are winning big and the fourth quarter rolls around, Brady and other starters need to hit the sideline, I’m left wondering exactly what Belicheck is thinking.

I mean, to actually tempt Brady being injured (despite the supposed professional coda of sportsmen, even Bill Cowher has gone on record to say retribution is highly likely if it continues) without any other reason than to humiliate the opposing team could be true, but I do wonder. Belicheck is a lot of things, but I’m not sure he’s that stupid.

I mean, here’s what I saw in the last two games:

Dolphins game: Pats run their A #1 offense through the first half. I think most of us have agreed anything goes in the first half, including the fake spike. Now, Belicheck pulls Brady in the third quarter, but two plays later Cassell gives up a pick six to Taylor. The Dolphins have beaten the Pats in impossible ways before. Consistently, even. So Brady goes back in to finish the third quarter. Then he sits for Gutierrez. But still, why aren’t they running the ball? Well, Sammy Morris got hurt and Maroney is probably still playing hurt at that point. Maybe that’s a backwards justification, but why punish your most banged-up corps on your offense when you don’t have to?

Skins game. After the lead is established and it’s clear the Pats will win, you need to watch the plays they ran in the second half, especially in the red zone. Sure, it’s still Brady (until he goes out in the fourth for Cassell, who played like his job was on the line, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was), but they ran all sorts of “trick” plays. Hell, 1st and 2nd and goal on one goal-to-go possession had three defensive players in, and no Moss or Maroney to be seen. I think they were trying to lay up, but not on the conventional “hand it off up the middle” manner. What use is that to the Pats? Oh, they’re looking past the Skins at that point. They’re testing out all phases of their offense at that point, the C options, against what was going into that game the 5th or 6th-ranked defense in the league. Because these plays are possibly going to be necessary to beat the Colts.

Also, remember how the Pats went home last season: by blowing the biggest lead in a conference championship game ever. By laying up and trying to get to the Super Bowl in neutral, and Manning made them pay for it. (EDIT: Dang you CCZ!)

I’ll be interested to see how they play in blowouts after the Colts game, as well.

56

These pass interference calls are bullshit.

57

This is not at all the game I expected. The game is certainly not over, but after the Patriot’s dominance this year, being held to only 7 first half points has to be jarring to them. Maybe all that talk about playing a very weak schedule is valid.

58

Game not over yet, don’t jinx the Colts. =)

59

WTF? So after a totally borderline goal line PI call for the Colts the refs ignore a blatant PI call for almost no yardage? These refs suck. I know it’s bad when my dad who is not a Pats fan at all (Packers fan and gives me shit about the Pats all the time) comments about how the refs want the Colts to win.

60

Bad calls by the refs rarely lose games, it’s how the team that feels it’s been wronged reacts. This game is hardly out of reach for the Pats, no matter what you believe about those calls.