Phoenix Point - new Julian Gollop turn-based strategy game

It’s not long at all. Thank you for replying, and being so gracious with the words you use. You’re one of my favourite people on Qt3. Among many others =).

I hope people don’t come away with the impression that I’m angry with the developers or anything. I’m basing my refund decision just on the DLC. Both it’s approach and pricing.

I have the observation to make.

DLC’s are principally sold on the basis on making you feel that you “need” the feature to have a “complete” game experience. (As are all products.)

It worked psychologically on me. That is, I’ll feel weird that I did not buy the DLC even if I am perfectly ok with a base game, (much more so when the DLC with mechanics is announced before the base game is even released.)

Therefore, their marketing psychology is spot on. It triggers my “need” for the DLC, yet I refuse to buy, because I had deemed the price will be too high. I’ll not spend beyond $60 for a good game nowadays, due to many other factors like bargains, time, other priorities etc.

So the DLC strategy had convinced me that I in fact needed them to be “complete”, and yet I do not value the game (base, DLC+base or whatever) at the price they want to extract from me.

So I find it ironic that I do not buy in, despite me buying into their marketing… =)

That’s really nice of you to say, thanks! I too enjoy reading your posts and am glad you are a member here.

I did incorrectly assume / perceive that you were angry about the DLC. That last post does help me understand your feelings about it. Thanks!

Isn’t the point of going Epic exclusive supposed to be an injection of capital to help smooth things like this out?

It’s one thing if you’re an indie dev with no support and you can’t keep the lights on long enough to get everything in that you want to, so you have to parse it out in DLCs. But if you just got cut a big paycheck, I feel like that scenario no longer applies to you.

I’ll just wait on it, it’s not like it was really on my radar in the first place.

That seems a good way to piss off people who put money to buy a game + season pass, and in the end the season pass is only some shitty decals and unlocked starting weapons.

That’s true. Yet, if the promise is for those who backed, and they’re still on Epic (they’ll have to be, else they would have refunded), then they could announce the expansions later, after they have observed how well the base game plays out.

But the selling of the season pass is completely their call and does not seem related to pleasing their kickstarters (the angry ones had already refunded), so it seems like shooting their own foot… or if I want to be more uncharitable in my interpretation… a cash grab…

As a backer, I do not totally agree with all the moves done by Snapshot Games, but if at the end of the day I can have a worthy successor of both the original and Firaxis X-Com, I’ll be the happiest boy in town, especially after the fiasco (in my opinion) of Phantom Doctrine and Mutant Year Zero.

By the way, I have $10 discount on the purchase of the Season Pass for Phoenix Point, if anyone is interested PM me. First come first served.

This was something I was wondering, as well. I remember it being a big deal at the time, I guess they went through those funds already as well?

Being realistic about it, they probably pocketed the money. There isn’t much reason not to and it gives them financial security regardless of how the game turns out. It’s not like Epic was paying them to finish the game, they were paying for exclusivity of the game they were already making without Epic.

I wouldn’t really hold it against them if it wasn’t for the DLC stuff tbh. And even then I don’t really, it just kinda looks crappy.

The biggest problem with Phoenix Point (other than I can never spell “Phoenix” right the first time) is that XCOM 2 War of the Chosen exists, and it’s still the absolute best game of this type, imo. I just fired it up again because of @Balasarius’s fantastic thread and I’m falling in love all over again, for the third or maybe fourth time. Such a great game, it’s hard to imagine PP being able to top it at launch.

I haven’t been following this much, but I think there is room for a game like this to surpass XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen. I loved XCOM 2 and it is one of those games that I haven’t ruled out playing multiple times even though it is heavily scripted from a story and ‘play arc’. I think it was in the running for my GoTY that year (can’t recall).

If PP can handle the way enemies start to engage the player in combat in a bit more fluid way, maybe offer something more flexible than the move + attack system in XCOM 2, and be more open ended in how each play through develops, while not digressing in other areas - it can surpass it. Maybe things have been revealed to make this unlikely (I don’t know), but I have severely tempted to get this immediately. Since it’s part of Gamepass it is easier to hold off and try first.

Why do you cal MYZ a “fiasco”? The Metacritic score is 78 and it has a “Very Positive” rating on Steam. i realize that it may not be your cup of tea but calling it a “fiasco” seems to be an inaccurate description.

So everyone should just stop making tactical squad type games? XCom2 is the pinnacle that can never be exceeded? I’m not saying PP will be better but with this reasoning we’ll never get better games of any type genre :)

I had a lot of good will for Julian and Phoenix Point back at the beginning of development but he’s burned though that and then some with the decisions made during the process. At this point I’ll wait 2 or 3 years and pick up the GOTY version with all the DLC included at a steep discount. Hopefully on GOG.

My bad. Non-native English speaker here.

What I mean is that those 2 games were a letdown for my tastes, specially MYZ, because I was expecting a squad tactics game but it felt like a puzzle, and a boring one.

With reference to PP specifically, yeah, from what I’ve seen so far. But overall? No, I’d love for something to come along and knock XCOM 2 from it’s perch. I also want new, cool games. I don’t think PP is going to be it though. I’d absolutely love to be wrong though! But every time I watch gameplay of this, plus with the delays and the most recent look at the game it just doesn’t seem like quite what I was hoping/envisioning earlier in development/announcement.

The tactical engine definitely has some things that could be killer features: fully destructible environments; segmented aliens with HP on different parts; ability to aim at will; simulated bullet trajectories. The question is whether these things, played over and over, make for a good game. It’s possible that the abstracted percentage-based approach XCOM takes is ‘good enough’ and gets you to the interesting decisions faster.

For me, the thing they’ve not shown will be the deciding factor on where I land on this one. I consider what he’s doing with tactical as not adding much to that game loop, again for my tastes.

So what have I not seen that could for me be an improvement (or not) over xcom2, the strategic layer.

The freedom of the original w/o hand holding to run your base and build it out as you saw fit (with tense base invasions putting that design to the test), where to put new ones on the entire globe, and not run out of money while doing it was challenging and interesting.

While WOTC helped for my tastes in making xcom2 stategic layer more engaging, it also made it pretty damn frenetic, giving me the sense I was being forced down what was in reality a fairly narrow victory path that just gave the facade of decision making.

Notice how he hasn’t shown us the strategic layer, that gives me a lot of pause about this one.

I am having trouble understanding what about this game “looks bad”. It looks fine to me.

:shrug:

Agreed.

Was it that it graphically looked bad or “looks bad” as in the situation seems a bit hinky?

I’m looking forward to it and get a kick out of the iterative nature of it all. Firaxis took Julian’s initial game, tweaked and streamlined some aspects, and now in PP, Julian appears to be taking ideas both from his original series of games, some of Firaxis’ tweaks, and a bunch of new twists. I can’t say it will be better than Firaxis’ remake, but am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.