As it stands, Mythic has virtually no communication with their players. They answer a handful of questions once a week, but that’s it.
It wouldn’t really bother me if Mythic people hadn’t feverishly worked message boards before the game launched and if Mark Jacobs hadn’t promised “revolutionary customer service.”
[Deleted. I don’t wear my official Mythic fez here. Besides, this is about Raph! He got promoted!]
[quote=“Guido_Jones”]
They run private boards that they use to communicate to TL’s and the “testing” community. Also, TL’s are having their reports responded to directly and commented on - but it’s up to the TL’s to post these for public consumption.[/quote]
Yeah except they stonewall the TLs a lot of the time. TLs tell them that doing x is breaking things on test and causes problems a, b, and c but Mythic just slaps in the nerf next patch despite that. Then about a year later they get around to figuring out that a, b, and c are a big problem and they are going to fix them but by this time people have quit or are all rolling up the flavor of the month since that is the only way to stay ahead of the nerf curve.
– Xaroc
Thanks for letting us know, Mr. Long.
It is sometimes a no-win situation. Developers get about zero public credit when they do something most or all the players like, and get treated like doormats and to intense personal attacks when they do something even a few players dislike. This ‘2 way communication’ often ends up meaning “Me and my few buddies can use our anonymity any time we like to be malicious, vicious little bastards and you can’t do anything about it, so there. Nyah!”
So I don’t blame them and yes, when I say “stand their ground,” I mean not being willing to be targets just because some people think it is their right to treat them that way.
When I played DAoC which was right around its release, for a period of ~6 months, those forums were moderated like crazy. Stuff got locked all the time and people were banned left and right.
Sorry, this just isn’t true. I hung out on them at the same time and you couldn’t swing a cat without hitting ten or more personal attacks on Mythic and/or their people. Attack messages and even thread titles such as “F**k you” would stand for days.
What do you mean by Mythic standing their ground? They are taking the easy road out, just like Verant/SOE did with EQ and those boards way back when. If you ask me, its pathetic when you wont dont some form of 2-way communication with your player/customers.
olaf
What makes you think they don’t? The Vault isn’t the only site in existence. Besides, doing so hasn’t seemed to hurt EQ numbers significantly and I don’t see an unusual exodus from DAoC starting up because of this. The couple-hundred thousand or so players who are satisfied with the game will continue to check the Mythic site for updates and avoid the forums, as they always have done. The relatively few dissatisfied players will, for the most part, continue to make the forums a toxic space for everyone else.
Would I handle things differently? Not very much so, actually. Currently, my teams and I communicate daily on several forums. Criticism is one thing, even if it is eviscerating and painful; we always treat those messages and the posters of them with great respect.
However, my people are people, not doormats for some poorly-raised, ill-mannered snot to step all over just because, you know, he can. If the moderators start allowing that kind of BS, I pull my people out. Thankfully, the number of those people is small; unfortunately, when they wish to, they dominate the message boards.
And nuke the site from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.
She has a point. Let’s not confuse unfettered access to developers on a host of public boards with the only method of communicating with players. There are legitimate criticisms that we can levy against various companies for their lack of communication, but it’s usually in the form of not enough info being provided on the official channels those companies provide. That’s a legitimate beef. But it’s not really valid to expect companies to send out spokespeople to every piddly little board on the 'Net (or even the not so piddly ones).
And no, they don’t have an obligation to be verbally harrassed any more than the customers do. I’ve watched this sort of communication since back before we had websites and forums, when I was a sysop on CompuServe in the bad old days and when Wildcat BBSes were the place for getting hints and tips. Devs visited back then, too, but not for long…they got hammered by idiots and wisely left.
Yup, I’ve been on the recieving end of a few of thse posts on our message boards and to tell the truth it’s part of the reason that I don’t go there as often as I used to. It’s not that I’m thin skinned, it’s just that it get’s tiring to be on guard all the time and there is no benefit in trying to reason with an anon that insists on being a jerk.
Yup, I’ve been on the recieving end of a few of thse posts on our message boards and to tell the truth it’s part of the reason that I don’t go there as often as I used to. It’s not that I’m thin skinned, it’s just that it get’s tiring to be on guard all the time and there is no benefit in trying to reason with an anon that insists on being a jerk.[/quote]
What about a forum regular that insists on being a jerk? 
I’ve heard lots of downsides of developers having frequent communications with the fans/customers/public. I’ve never heard a convincing upside. From my perspective, the optimum plan for a game development house would be almost absolute silence. Keep the development process out-of-sight and out-of-mind. Let developers focus on the final product and not on endless fan whining. Let game designers do the designing and not have to answer to the plublic about feature lists and feature cuts and development processes.
I’m speaking from some experience here since my one limited stint as a game dev was burdened by a manager who felt I needed to maintain a “dialogue” with the hardcore fans via forums and chats. I saw absolutely nothing positive about the experience. The fan feedback didn’t tell me anything the internal testers hadn’t already said and was mostly piteous whining. Plus the effort to keep these people updated and feeling involved ate into development time.
So I’m a believer in black-box development, done in caves, by personnel in cages. The cave will be in a secret location and the personnel will only answer to obscure secret aliases. Any other devs have a different opinion?
lmao :)
/hug Ty
Oh, and Congrats, Raph :)
It’s bittersweet, though… the game misses you already.
Great post, Jessica. Sums up very well the developer conundrum – it’s very hard to “win” an argument on design, so it’s pretty much pointless to even try on a fan board. And the worst offenders definitely know that developers need to be on their best behavior, so they feel free to let loose with the worst insults they can dream up…
This is exactly why I prefer to remain anonymous. That way I don’t get a) questions from people who assume I’m an official presence on a board (or want me to be), b) complaints or suggestions about something I’m working on (I read this board in my leisure time), and c) unwarranted abuse.
I think that’s perfectly viable, but having good communications can greatly help spread the word on your products. I think Baldur’s Gate, for instance, developed a great deal of anticipatory buzz because of Ray Muzyka’s constant presence on message boards, the usenet, etc. – it can be really effective (and also backfire, I guess, if you’re an ass).
No it’s not. Check this out…this is a surefire winner!
“eXtreme Paintbrawl has a crappy design.”
See how easy that was?
Since when did asking questions and challenging people’s statements qualify as touchy? Also, if people are going to say things about games I have worked on do I not have the right to clarify where I see fit or is it a devs job to quietly take all criticisms and ask for more?[/quote]
Touchy touchy touchy! ;)[/quote]
You want touchy, I’ll show you touchy! I have deployed my secret cadre of ninja nerds that will infiltrate your home, tie you up and ask you Star Trek questions 24/7 until you see things my way! Bwahahahahahahaha!
[size=2]Did I type that out loud?[/size][/quote]
Derek, give Dave his account back. No jumping!
No it’s not. Check this out…this is a surefire winner!
“eXtreme Paintbrawl has a crappy design.”
See how easy that was?[/quote]
That’s not an argument, unfortunately.
Try something like “real-time/turn-based”, “action oriented/sim oriented”, “first person/third person”, “multiplayer/no multiplayer”, “Gamespy/no Gamespy”, etc. for some real fun.
I think that’s perfectly viable, but having good communications can greatly help spread the word on your products. I think Baldur’s Gate, for instance, developed a great deal of anticipatory buzz because of Ray Muzyka’s constant presence on message boards, the usenet, etc. – it can be really effective (and also backfire, I guess, if you’re an ass).[/quote]
Upsides:
I think that’s perfectly viable, but having good communications can greatly help spread the word on your products. I think Baldur’s Gate, for instance, developed a great deal of anticipatory buzz because of Ray Muzyka’s constant presence on message boards, the usenet, etc. – it can be really effective (and also backfire, I guess, if you’re an ass).[/quote]
Upsides:
See, I told ya’. :)
I guess you just have to know where to look Mark - They don’t go to the VN forums anymore (VN is so goddamn worthless anyway), but they lurk/post many places.
Is it the best model for Company/Customer relations? No, but it’s not the worst I’ve seen either.