Recent air combat sim recommendations?

Games
3722

It ain’t like none of this crap is exclusive. Crazy realistic systems with 31 radar modes are awesome. But just spend some time on the AI and mission setups too, make those as realistic.

When you hear a Vietnam F-4 pilot talk about going into a vertical fight with a MiG-21 and waiting to see who was going to stall and die… When you read stories about F4F-3 pilots finally figuring out how to succesfully tangle with Zeroes… I want AI that flies the plane realistically enough to recreate those experiences.

Don’t get me wrong, I love DCS and IL-2 and the niche sims, and I have a computer I built dedicated primarily to flying those. I’m not a jaded old man sitting around playing X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter for the 3,315th time. But I just saw so much great stuff in those early sims, and I’ve read so many amazing combat stories, that I know there’s an area of focus that could make these sims even more exciting.

For some people it’s mastering the AWG-9. For some of us it’s the adrenaline rush of facing a realistic version of a well-trained pilot flying his hardware to the limits. Both can be made happy. :)

3723

Moar #shotsfired

3724

https://i.imgur.com/wJuaZkL.gif

3725

Hey, I wasn’t talking about you, @BrianRubin. You’re not old yet! Nor are you jaded. (Glances sidelong at @scharmers)

3726

Oh, okay, all is forgiven.

http://i.imgur.com/ax87PtS.gif

3727

tenor

3728

Aargh, Ok, one last attempt and then I’ll drop it until I don’t.

Take Grim Dawn. I’ve spent hours perusing that forum researching the perfect build. That game is so damn complex! So many synergies possible it takes a true mathematician to work it all out. That complexity is an integral part to the game as well.

Do you need to do that to have fun with it? No. It’s an action RPG. The base game play is really all you need. Maybe not a perfect analogy, but DCS is similar.

OK, the barrier to entry is a bit higher. You do really need a simple joystick and a decent rig to play. The popular modules are pricey when not on sale. Also you need a rudimentary concept of flying such that you could learn in Star Fox or Red Baron. That does not equate to needing to read a 200 page manual.

Just like the depth in Grim Dawn, that the complexity is there makes the game great! Some folks like devoting 1000 hours to create the perfect build to clear Crucible in minutes. Some folks like LARPing their WoW characters. Some folks put on a flight jacket, join a virtual squadron and pretend they are a fighter pilot. Doesn’t mean you have to do those things.

I dunno, some of DCS is just universal gaming goodness that most anybody would enjoy. Screaming through a canyon at 1000 miles per hour while 400 feet above the ground. Escorting a B-17 bombing raid with flak bursting all around and carpet bombing a nazi tank regiment in a lightening storm. It does so much so well.

I don’t mind evangelizing a killer gaming experience. The main problem with DCS is that gaming goodness is presented like crap. There is no obvious path for the newbie, and they are as like to start in the wrong “zone” and get stuck on nosewheel steering. Time Pilot is an attempt to help that situation with a “best of”, but goddamn that is a lot of hard work and won’t be finished tomorrow.

3729

Alright, fine, I’ll try this DCS thing. Which one should should I start with? Mig-15? Is doing this through Steam okay?

3730

Go straight for the F-14 module, Brian. Definitely the easiest to get in to. And it’s only $80

Or, less sarcastically, go DCS and buy FC3 to go with it. The FC3 aircraft are all “relaxed” (…) realism.

Or you could just research what you’re buying first by going to

www.reddit.com/r/hoggit

I’m tempted to jump into either the Sabre or the Fagot tonight, but I’m stuck on a Sev 0 exploding and on fire at work

oh – life is easier grabbing the modules from the DCS site, at least for me

3731

Please await lengthy, and non cynical gamer response before buying anything… incoming…

3732

Yeeaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh I’m putting a hold on that.

3733

First, go with what plane you like. Just like Grim Dawn again, it’s about picking a class.

For what I know about your public persona, I would heartily recommend Hornet.

Hornet is easy to fly like a ship in FS2.

Hornet can do any type of mission. It is both fighter and attack.

  • Air to air with the most advanced missiles (which are freaking awesome) - check.
  • Air to ground with dumb rockets (my favorite weapons to spam in FS2 as air to air).
  • Air to ground guided rockets - Mavericks for now. Antiship Harpoons a bit later when they patch them in.
  • ALL the possible bombs, dumb, laser guided, GPS guided etc etc. The dumb bombs are no different than any other sim. CCIP should be second nature by now.
  • Guns guns guns

Hornet systems are easy to learn with lots of depth. The cockpit is laid out logically, with simplicity in mind. Sure, you want to set a GPS target point, you will have to learn, but strafing the shit out of whatever target with rockets is not a learning journey.

Hornet goes really fucking fast. Not as fast as Tomcat, but you are in the mach zone with this one.

Hornet is the flagship module for Eagle Dynamics. It is currently in “early access” which means that they are actively improving it and adding functions.

Hornet has missions! Matt Wagner published two awesome missions where you fly through canyons in a race. You have to fly through gateways. One easy, one hard, with scoring. Lots of easy, medium and advanced missions to choose from and more added every week.

Hornet has Time Pilot. I’d be happy to send you the two missions I described above. These have powerups and max mayhem. If you do go Time Pilot, you would need to also buy the WW2 asset pack which is well worth it. That gives you B-17 bombing raids.

Tomcat is a beautiful piece of art, but it has more complexity and requires two players in multiplayer to really get the most of it. See Top Gun.

End of day, it depends on what you like. Mig-15 has monster cannons and is so much fun to fly. It’s like a rocket. Museum Relic campaign, which I recommended upthread is great, but consider that going straight to Elite. The very first mission has you taxi’ing and navigation. Ouch!

So many other standouts, which makes the game great.

  • A-10C is godly. The original badness and plays prominently in Time Pilot. Tiger busting baby!

  • Freaking Harrier! VTOL baby!

  • Mig 28… I mean F-5. Really fun to fly. Makes an appearance in Time Pilot as the newbie plane.

  • Viggen. Huh? what’s that? Turns out to be pretty cool with a user-guided missile while in flight. Would have loved to put this in, but bjork?

  • Spitfire is a thing of beauty.

  • Tomcat is the latest hotness and oh boy does it raise the bar on the whole genre. There has never been an airplane so lovingly rendered, and accurately. Talk about passion! Must have if you like the plane. For sure you meet Jester in Time Pilot. What a character!

  • Mig-19 is a hotrod!

Lots more. C-101 is a trainer and is great. Also Helicopters! Check out some of the youtube videos of the Gazelle opening up with miniguns. Holy crap the bullet bounce tracers are insane!

I’d stay away from FC3. I find it easier to remember how to do shit by clicking on labeled controls in a cockpit than remembering quick keys. It’s more logical. They did try to make these things ergonomic.

Hope you have fun.

3734

Sitting in a Hotel room for work with nothing better to do. Let’s regale y’all with Time Pilot missions. Just wish I had access to my game machine to copy the writing and add some screenshots… This is one is paraphrased off the top of my head and not quite the real deal… Been awhile since I wrote it.

In the Pale Moonlight

"The Nazi campaign to take over the metaverse is assured. Their Father George agent has run rampant through the town of Caen and the infected will soon become an army. We must change this timeline. Do not allow the Juggalo and Juggalette zombies to escape on the trains to infect the rest of Europe.

Your mission is to escort a low level B17 bombing raid that will take care of the Juggalo concentration in the city center. I have exerted my energy to camouflage your A-10 to look like a B-17. Stay close!

On this date there was a lightening storm. This should distract and help mask your true identity. As you reach the target, peel off and take out the two bridges leading out of town. At great energy expense, I have brought back three 2000 pound GBU-16 laser guided bombs which should allow you to do the job.

The local population has been infected and must not be allowed to escape. Do your job Time Pilot, the metaverse is counting on you!"

Development notes:

The B-17 bombing raid is a total riot. Carpet bombing works in this game! Didn’t like the regular pattern of the explosions, so spent considerable time scripting random explosions in the middle to break it up. Worked like a charm!

Dusk, sunset and lightening storm in this game must be seen to be believed. In VR I was… stupified. Technology these days… A B-17 raid in that environment = video game gold I hope. Wish that night operations with spotlights were a thing… Can be worked around with some scripting…

3735

Anklebiter is obviously a victim of some kind of Manchurian Russian Mind Control.

AB, tell me what you think when I present this photo to you:

image

3736

Edit: Too much enthusiasm. LoL

3737

It felt so right when I posted all that personal info!

3738

Redacted for improper clearance.

I’m sorry all. I had one of those days yesterday. Shame on me.

3739

I’ll bet you can fly rings around me, but you don’t seem to be able to pick up on irony very well.

3742

You mean like a black fly in my chardonnay?

My flying skills suck.

3743

MiG-15 is fine! That crate is fun to the gills, simple like a ww2 fighter (heck even more so because that engine does not need a lot of management, just dont be too hamfisted with it). It also has the most fun set of guns in the game.

The only thing that’ll send you up the walls is taxiing it. That’s a weird thing about early soviet aircraft that really takes some learning. But it’s a minor part of the experience, you can do runway/air starts and parking after landing is not mandatory (but it is hella immersive, in a ‘there i was’ kinda way!).

These things are all expensive. They are works of engineering art. Sometimes they’re on sale too. I think I paid like 15 bucks for my MiG-15. If you do get the -15, also pay the tenner for the museum relic campaign to fly it in.

Or you could get the hornet, marvel at all the buttons and menus and think naw i’d have more fun figuring out objects in space. And you might. But it is quite ergonomic and it doesn’t take ten hours of manual reading to get to do shit in. You’d be launching off the carrier and shooting down some fools in your first sitting if you give it an hour or two.

@scharmers the relaxed realism thing for fc3 is sorta a thing of the past. They have the same flight modelling as the full fat modules and lack the clicky cockpits that make doing a lot of things easier because you don’t have to know them by heart. They do have somewhat simplified radars, but you’d be amazed how little difference that makes to full fat radar implementations like the one on the Hornet or Mirage.

Get the MiG-15 (farmer!) or the F-86 sabre for the joy of experiencing Museum Relic and the feeling of flight in DCS. Get the Mirage or Hornet if you keep stalling out and crashing and spinning and pancaking and you want a computer to fly the plane for you while you steer it.

Oh and @BrianRubin and @scharmers you I love you snarky old fools right? I’m a big fan of your spacesim blog and thread and podcast. I used to read @scharmers flight sim blog when he still gave a shit, the internet was young and so were we. I have always held your cynical ass in high regard.

I’d also happy to fly some multiplayer (either coop or vs) to fill in the gap of the questionable AI. If you want to fight edge of the envelope, watching for the other guy to make a mistake, fight humans.