Correct. You guys should have stiffed him until he rebelled or lost his concessions via stiletto. Never work with an immune moneybags. How will things improve? They won’t. He should have seen a Kamikaze Scotsman coming for him every year.
Well, it’s a lot easier to say in retrospect. Turn 1 deals always seem much more innocuous at the time.
Agree. I’m talking about later. But that was the kickoff. Frankly I was surprised at all the nicey nicey that went on until very late. Roman Ninjas need to attempt to take out immune moneybags every damn year. By nicey nicey I mean not getting stabby.
Except that every time it goes wrong (and it’s 33% chances in the Early Republic unless you get the assassination card and moneybags doesn’t get the bodyguard card) there’s a high likelihood of a faction being eliminated (assassin gets killed, faction leader does not stand a chance in the prosecution against popularity 9 and then it’s about 1/3 chances of each additional Senator getting killed). Which opens an initiative bid that moneybags can use.
I won the game thanks to the last initiative bid, since the early persuasion of the standing Consul failed.
Your sacrifice did give me the game.
You gotta try. It ain’t candyland, or any of these modern “everyone gets a trophy” games. Cooperation is about self-interest. When moneybags is immune, he can do whatever he wants. Cooperation is not in anyone’s self interest, and the status quo likely will favor him.
Yeah, there was definitely a misunderstanding of the seriousness from my end. One of those ‘I get the rules, but not fully the implications and distribution’ things.
I just think a pacification strategy (giving moneybags minor stuff in exchange for huge contributions to offset shipbuilding) would have been more effective. But then you have played more and perhaps the repercussions of that are even worse?
Maintains the status quo. Then I am praying the Gods take moneybags’ life.
Money is the number 2 threat after early wars sacking Rome. Period.
Not really, since shipbuilding is not a linear income generator. Take away a couple turns income and then it’s equivalent to Egyptian Grain or worse.
With other Concessions (a Senator getting the three grains, for example) I do think taking him out is the only viable choice.
You’re getting too hung up on you and that one concession. In this game. :). I’m talking overarching strategy.
Yeah, there I think you are right. A high income faction that can’t be prosecuted and will keep earning more than the rest is a prime target for everything you can throw their way.
But I do think you got somewhat blinded by the general case and failed to see other solutions this specific instance presented. I could have been neutered with the early contribution deals I proposed.
Sure, the winds of fate determined how powerful it was.
In our game, very.
And obviously money is a threat, but I completely misread how much of one until too late.
No, I took a risk. Who ended up winning? More 33% chances being taken and that might not have happened. No 33% chances? Moneybags wins.
Again, I won because I amassed money. But the early contribution deals would have not allowed me to do so and then shipbuilding would have been neutered.
You’re just still wanting you deals taken, man. :). Take the deals, the trend favors moneybags. Giving him more prestige and money isn’t gonna reverse trending. Sorry, I’ve played this sucker 20x times. Freeze - stop-kill moneybags is the only way. Early.
How would the deals give me more money? They don’t. They would have spent the money and then I would have had just an average-to-high income, but nothing too crazy. In this particular case the trend was bound to reverse, due to how the moneymaking concession was working.
And this inability to adapt to the specific of the situation got you killed AND gave me the game. In this case it seems like knowing the forest so well did not let you see the trees.
How did I miss a RoR forum game?! Catching up on this thread looks to be a good evening’s entertainment.
Who won? Lots of time passed after I left.
Why?
That’s my point! Your “against all deals” attitude gave me more cash to spend (because otherwise I would have donated it) and allowed @scottagibson to collaborate with me because he was getting fed up of all the infighting when I was proposing donating to the treasury.
It was after the assassination, your demise, and the extra initiative that I saw an opening to go for!
Without the extra initiative I would not have won (we would all have lost, most likely). Until the assassination I was not trying to go for an early win. You pushed the issue,man, and there were other paths open that I believe would not have ended with me winning (although certainly I would have had a strong position in the Late Republic had we reached it).
You made me the moneybags you feared, because you wouldn’t see I wasn’t going for that.
Because no one else tried to stop you, other than Panzeh until it was too late. Craig just admitted as much, re: understanding the importance of money.