Yes the Santelli Rant is “officially” the launch of the Tea Party but there was already astroturfing going on behind the scenes by the Kochs et al., even before the inauguration.
Actually, both your quote the Wiki article reinforcement my point. The Tea Party started as concern over deficit spending in particular, and the size of government in general. Prior to the Rick’s rant, the early Tea Party started from Ron Paul supporters. What ever issues you have with libertarians and I have a fair amount, they weren’t racist, other than opposing affirmative action,none of their policy really had any racially overtones.
By 2010, the Tea Party had elected a fair number of at the local and Congressional level, and most prominently Sen. Rand Paul, a libertarian. Almost all of these were new folks to politics and ran as fiscally conservative, small party Republicans. It wasn’t just Democrats who were out of control, Bush gave us No Child left behind, Medicare drugs and off course an expensive war funded on a credit card. After the success of Tea Party in 2010, the nationalist wing of the Republican co-opted it. Now its true that racist like Steven King, Michelle Bauchmann, and populist like Sarah Palin took over the Tea Party and become the face of the party. But it is important to understand that all of these folks had power, albeit somewhat at the fringes of the Republican party before tea party existed. Also as I said the backlash against TARP, and government bailout had largely subsidy by the time Sarah Palin spoke in 2011.
Sort of like the difference between brownshirts and nazis.
Naw that’s really unfair. I have issues with libertarians, “I got mine by working hard, so everybody could do the same.” Because they don’t understanding that not everybody was born rich, smart, white, good looking, and raised by two parents who were good role models. But that doesn’t make you a racist piece shit like Steven King et al.
No. The idea that there is any broad constituency at all for small government and against deficits is total nonsense. It’s a reaction to a black man in the White House. It’s that simple.
Ron Paul’s constituency is / was certainly racist. That’s why his communications with them was overtly racist, repeatedly.
I was kind of kidding around but lets get real here. In 2018 many racists (at least in tech) call themselves “libertarians”.
In the past I grant you , no question. I knew several very smart libertarians in the 90’s, they were sane even. But today? I havent seen many libertarians standing up for their principles against Trump.
‘Smart’ isn’t the issue. Evil people can be smart. Have you ever known a moral libertarian? I haven’t.
Well, anyone that can read Ayn Rand and think “that’s the right idea” is definitely not someone I would want in charge.
Those people abdicate the entire idea or morality or responsibility, like one of those twisted philosophies that you can take in the old Vampire the Masquerade games.
Hmm. Good question. Yes. One. A friend of mine in Texas. He is an open carry guy (“it keeps everyone polite” in his words), sustainable land activist and highly ethical businessman. I can say without hesitation he is a good man. His wife and daughter are down the line Democrats. I have known him for over twenty years.
I dont know how he voted in the great moral test of 2016 . I am afraid to ask. Not sure I could handle it if I discovered he voted for Trump, but knowing him, I doubt it.
Weak answer i know but there you go.
Anyone who uses the threat of death to alter the behavior of the people he encounters every day and then jokes about it isn’t moral.
You might want to lighten up just a scoche there.
Sure, OK.
I’ll agree libertarian has morphed and some racist call themselves libertarians. But Libertarian as philosophy is not racist, it just lacks empathy.
Here is Gary Johnson opening statement for during the NM Senate debate. It is 100% about the deficit.
So why do you think minorities typically don’t click with the Libertarian movement? And when i say that, I don’t mean GOP, I mean the several failed attempts to even engage these groups by actual Libertarians?
You friends sounds like an asshole. No offense.
I think because it is easier to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, when your boots aren’t weight down by many decades of institutional racism. Libertarian, and I used to be one when I was young, live in a fantasy world, where racism doesn’t exist. I’m guessing the average black doesn’t spend much time in that fantasy world.
Here is a recent example
Yeah, pretty much. It’s a racist policy driven by people who don’t want to acknowledge racism because they have zero chance of actually experiencing it themselves. I mean anytime an Libertarian starts talking about these things, it’s like they don’t acknowledge slavery, they don’t think someone can be dying in the street and some hospital refuse to take them, just watch them bleed out for no logical reason at all, Civil Rights, Women’s Rights… like you said, they live in a fantasy world as if history didn’t happen.
I think you and agree more than disagree on this. But I don’t think it is fair do call it “a racist policy”, it is naive, ignorant, selfish, short-side etc. but not racist, IMO.
But I think there is a fundamental difference between a libertarian, who is philosophically opposed to the concept of government helping people, for many reasons (my #1 is I think government generally does shitty job). And the typical Trump supporters who doesn’t think the government should help THOSE people (with those being blacks, immigrants, Hispanics, gays etc.). I think the Tea Party very much started out as the libertarian and then moved to the racist side, and now is indistinguishable from the Trumpers.
If he does, its down to my portrayal of him rather than the man.
Wait… how did my attack on the tea party end up with me defending libertarians?? Who I disagree with about everything? :) I spin right round :)
Fair, thanks for the link!