I really cannot comprehend why people continue to engage gman. He’s a tribalist and thus any engagement is 100% pointless. He’ll never ever abandon his tribe because of something said on a message board. Never. It will not happen.
Yet then I see stuff like this.
He did no such thing. He said Trump’s claim that there was no Russian meddling during the election was indefensible and walked back that same statement a few posts later. Also note that he conveniently omitted the exact sort of meddling he was referring to. The word ‘disgrace’ wasn’t even used. There is no progress. It was just a slip that was quickly brought back into line with tribal doctrine.
Timex, you in particular seem to be under the impression that gman can be converted. That if repeated exposure to facts and logic will cause an eventual switch (there was another recent thread somewhere discussing this).
The problem is… it won’t. That sort of thing only works on those who support a larger something because it’s something they support directly.
It’s the sort of person who wants, for example, to stop immigration from Nigeria. They’ll support any group/person who will make that happen, but—and this is crucial—they’ll stop supporting said group/person the moment the group/person allows immigration from Nigeria. Because the issue is what matters to them and everyone not directly aligned with it can piss right off.
That’s direct support: a direct link to a person’s beliefs, who uses them as their primary guideline on whom to support in society. These are the people you can affect by repeatedly exposing them to a different way.
Tribalists though? They have no direct link to the things they support. Their primary reason to support anything is always ‘because the tribe wants it’. It’s that very lack of connection that allows a tribalist to indulge in rampant hypocrisy and perform 180s whenever the tribe requires it.
And because there is no direct link to any particular issue, challenging said issue directly will never work. A tribalist’s main reason for supporting something is unrelated to their actual beliefs and thus immunity to logic and reason can be maintained.
The only things that can knock a tribalist out of their tribe is either banishment by the tribe, or by a life-shattering event that forces them to re-evaluate their belief. Talking on a discussion board like this provides neither.