It’s not so much that they’re all attractive, it’s the way he describes them. I read a fair amount of detective fiction, and yes, sexy women are a mainstay of the genre, but less creepy writers get that across much more succinctly and without actually airing the protagonist’s sexual fantasies about them.
Also guys, no need to get so upset. I’m not that down on these things; I read six of them after all. They just got tiresome for me after awhile, that’s all.
My issue is that Butcher isn’t quite clever enough to pull off the first-person wisecracking P.I. dialog to my satisfaction. And you know how humor is – if you fall just a little bit short, you might as well be a mile off.
I think I’m just tired of hardcore noirish first-person narration overall, too. I much prefer books written in third person.
I’ll second that. I think the only 1st person books I’ve ever read that I’d put on my top tier are Robin Hobb’s 1st and 3rd trilogies on Fitz (Assassins/Golden Man). Most other 1st person books are hit and miss, usually fun filler stuff, which is a category Dresden falls into.
I tend to handwave the prevy stuff away by noting that
a) we hear internal monologue, not outward behavior, and
b) Dresden is a straight male in his 20’s or 30’s.
Really, is any other explanation needed? That, and other fiction authors have stretched sexual themes so far elsewhere that Butcher’s approach comes off as really, really tame.
I’m the opposite, I love first person. So much so that when I was younger, I would select new series to start on that basis.
I’m not that anal now but I still prefer it. And I really hate the modern conceit to get clever by mixing it up, either in the same book,or in a series.
I do like first person quite a bit and read a pretty good mix of 1st and 3rd person books. 1st person makes for very personal feeling books. With Dresden I feel like I’m riding in his head, which is fun. But I think it’s harder to pull off a great book in 1st person. Particularly anything epic in nature with lots of characters. Hobb pulled it off, but most 1st person books feel very closed or narrow because the author can’t write about anything outside of that character’s limited perception.
Aren’t most of Brust’s Vlad Taltos books written in 1st person?
I’ve always really enjoyed those. I believe Brust uses a large amount of exposition via conversation to feed info to the reader. He also mixes a nice amount of variance in the recollection of different individuals to spice up the technique.
Yes, and they were awesome.
I have to somewhat agree with extarbags here. I enjoy the books plenty but I find they’re the sort of fiction where I have to “turn my brain off”. Mostly this is with respect to other female characters. I just finished Turn Coat and it had a higher-than-average number of skeevy Dresden moments. Butcher describes women’s nipples pressing against their shirts at least 4-5 times. A couple of these times are with White Court vampires but at least two are not. It’s clearly a thing for him. And then he has Molly take off her bra, apply ice to her nipples, and use them to get some info out of another detective mixing the whole nipple thing with the general weirdness of Molly and Harry constantly proving that he’s good enough not to sleep with her.
But mostly this bothers me simply because of its immaturity and not because I feel like it’s offensive. I think the characterization of the books as highly sexualized, as opposed to perverted, is an apt one. However I find the sexy bits to be a rather implausible and mixture of geek wish fulfillment and Butcher’s fetishes. I’m more bugged by the fact that Dresden flirts with 200 year old wizards using lines that would be more fitting coming out the mouth of an awkward geek at a D&D convention. Basically any time Harry starts talking to a female character starts to strain my suspension of disbelief.
I have to somewhat agree with extarbags here. I enjoy the books plenty but I find they’re the sort of fiction where I have to “turn my brain off”. Mostly this is with respect to other female characters. I just finished Turn Coat and it had a higher-than-average number of skeevy Dresden moments. Butcher describes women’s nipples pressing against their shirts at least 4-5 times. A couple of these times are with White Court vampires but at least two are not. It’s clearly a thing for him. And then he has Molly take off her bra, apply ice to her nipples, and use them to get some info out of another detective mixing the weirdness of his nipple thing with the generally weird repetition that Dresden is a saint for not sleeping with her.
But mostly this bothers me simply because of its immaturity. I think the characterization of the books as highly sexualized, as opposed to perverted, is an apt one. However I find the sexy bits to be pretty unrealistic and mostly just a mixture of geek wish fulfillment and Butcher’s fetishes. I’m more bugged by the fact that Dresden flirts with 200 year old wizards using lines that would be more fitting coming out the mouth of an awkward geek at a D&D convention than I am by Dresden/Butcher’s nipple obsession. All the bits of the story that involve women (which in some books, are a lot) really strain my suspension of disbelief.
I have to somewhat agree with extarbags here. I enjoy the books plenty but I find they’re the sort of fiction where I have to “turn my brain off”. Mostly this is with respect to other female characters. I just finished Turn Coat and it had a higher-than-average number of skeevy Dresden moments. Butcher describes women’s nipples pressing against their shirts at least 4-5 times. A couple of these times are with White Court vampires but at least two are not. It’s clearly a thing for him. And then he has Molly take off her bra, apply ice to her nipples, and use them to get some info out of another detective. The whole Molly thing is just generally weird too.
But mostly this bothers me simply because of its immaturity. I think the characterization of the books as highly sexualized, as opposed to perverted, is an apt one. However I find the sexy bits to be pretty unrealistic and mostly just a mixture of geek wish fulfillment and Butcher’s fetishes. I’m more bugged by the fact that Dresden flirts with 200 year old wizards using lines that would be more fitting coming out the mouth of an awkward geek at a D&D convention. All the bits of the story that involve women (which in some books, are a lot) really strain my suspension of disbelief.
The books have definitely gotten more sexual as the series continues. But then again, Harry has just gotten more dark, as well.
As Kevin Grey mentioned, taking out the Molly stuff really guts 90% of any pervy-ness. Extarbag’s comments are based on books 1-6. Those are TAME as far as I can recall.
As to Molly, I think the situation isn’t romance novel crazy. The guy is a 30-ish hetero male who has been celibate for several years. Hot, barely legal apprentice chick throws herself at him. He notices, big time. While I think the series wouldn’t be any worse off without the Molly sexual bits, I don’t see it as being a giant departure from the Dresden-verse.
writes down a new name for his shopping list
God I love Qt3’s monthly book thread(s). I think 85% of what I read had come from things like this.
It’s not just her, and it’s not just in the later books. I’m pretty sure that at least once per book (that I’ve read), he makes himself out to be a hero for not banging some ultra-hot chick while holding forth about her tips.
Fucking prudes.
I personally find that very inspiring. I’m pretty certain that in the same situation, I could be equally heroic.
Or maybe not… all I need is the opportunity to show my quality!
New topic - Side Jobs, a compilation of short stories plus an all new short story, was releases today.
The new short story, Aftermath – which takes place an hour or two after the end of Changes and told from Murphy’s point of view – is pretty damned good.
Should be here in the mail tomorrow.
I’ve managed to read Aftermath and it reminds me the thing I hate the most about the Dresden books, I never remember how they end up. I am completely lost every time a new books comes out.
Too bad they are not good enough for a complete re-read whenever a new book comes out.
starts Gardens of the Moon once more