The Empires in Arms Play By Forum Pre-Game Discussion Thread

Optional Rules Category 1 Review “Stuff from the main rules that is in red”

1.1.2 OFEN: For purposes of the 4.4 Victory Conditions Chart only, Ofen is an Austrian national capital city (i.e. a victorious power may not select Hungary for cession unless all other Austrian provinces are already ceded). For purposes of 8.2.1.1 (Money Collection by Taxation) and all other rules, Ofen remains a provincial capital. MLB

This is fine. Yes.

1.2.1 LEADER COUNTER CHANGES:

1.2.1.1 WELLINGTON: The British leader Wellington has a strategic rating of 4, not 5 as printed on the counter. MLB

This seems kind of goofily arbitrary. Nope.

4.6.3.4.1 CAPITAL GARRISON: Every neutral minor (even those which have no corps marker) when declared war upon gains one infantry PER CAPITAL to place as a garrison. This is in addition to any forces listed on the MINOR COUNTRIES CHART. At a minimum this one factor must remain as a garrison until the minor is conquered, the war lapses or the controlling major is no longer at war. When the war ends, if the minor is a Free State, it retains the garrison(s), otherwise remove them. JJ

This prevents cheese with Minor Control. Yes.

5.3.1 LEADER MINIMUMS: If a major power loses leaders (wounded or killed, captured leaders do not count) and has fewer leaders than listed for their country below, then they may receive a “generic” replacement leader counter to his force pools. This represents a random general that would be available if other leaders were killed or wounded “generic” replacement leader. There can only be one extra leader per country. On the Reinforcement Phase [5.0] where a major power again has this minimum (due to wounded leaders returning or gaining new leaders as listed reinforcements), then instantly remove the “generic” leader, even if he is besieged. JJ

Austria : fewer than 3 leaders, gains a 123D

France : fewer than 4 leaders, gains a 223D

Great Britain : fewer than 1 (non-naval) leader, gains a

222D - Yes, this give GB a leader at the start of the

** 1805 campaign.**

Prussia : fewer than 2 leaders, gains a 122D

Russia : fewer than 3 leaders, gains a 114D

Spain : fewer than 2 leaders, gains a 112D

Turkey : fewer than 3 leaders, gains a 213D

5.3.1.1 When a Replacement Leader Can be Used: When a replacement leader becomes available, during the next Reinforcement Phase [5.0] add the country specific leader to that country’s force pool. (Example: Spain is down to one leader and so gains his 112D.) There can only be one extra leader per country in use. This leader may be added as a normal leader from this point onwards. On the Reinforcement Phase [5.0] where a major power again has this minimum (due to wounded leaders returning or gaining new leaders as listed reinforcements), then instantly remove the “generic” leader, even if he is besieged. JJ

5.3.1.2 Replacement Leader Capture: A replacement leader is never captured. If the stack with a replacement leader is completely destroyed, the replacement leader is returned to the controlling player. These represent generic leaders of no real importance. If one is “captured” or killed, they would just replace him with some other general. JJ

5.3.1.3 Replacement Leader Usage Restrictions: A replacement leader may only be stacked with a force where at least 50% of the army factors are of the same nationality. (Neither controlled minor Free States nor Kingdom factors count for this limit.) At the end of any phase where there are fewer than 50% of the leader’s national forces in the same stack as the replacement leader, remove that leader from the board (unless besieged). He can be brought in again normally on the next Reinforcement Phase [5.0] normally as long as the requirements in 5.3.1.1 are still met. JJ

This was a needed, and thoughtful addition. Yes.

6.3.3.2 NAVAL COMBAT RESOLUTION: Each side rolls one die, adding one if a British fleet is present on that side and subtracting one if an Egyptian (See 12.12.2), Prussian and/or an Austrian fleet is present on that side

Yes, the Egyptians should have been added to the list of crappy navies that give a penalty. Keep.

8.2.1.2.4 Continental Blockade: If using the option that Great Britain may choose which specific ports he will trade with, rather than just trading with (all ports of) the Major Power, implement this rule. At the conclusion of the Money and Manpower Collection Step, Britain loses one political point (PP) if its total Domestic Trade is less than $25, and loses a second PP if its total trade is less than $15. MLB

We will use that “specific ports” option and therefore Yes to this rule. Reflects Britain’s political need for trade, while weaponizing it.

8.5.1.2 FLEET MAINTENANCE: It costs various amounts to maintain fleets; one money point for each fleet located in a port, 2 money points for each fleet in a blockade box JJ and 5 money points for each fleet located in a sea area.

Fills a gap that was always annoying. Yes.

8.5.5 SURPLUS MINOR FREE STATE MONEY OR MANPOWER: Any remaining unused money or manpower points belonging to minor Free States are lost. Minor country Free States and Kingdoms may save up to $14 between economic phases. If at any time in the future a new rule introduces a factor that costs more than $15, then the savings limit is increased to one less than that cost. JJ

Always an issue with the Free states and Minors with larger forces. Yes.

10.4.1.1 ADDITIONAL COUNTRIES WITH SECONDARY DISTRICS: The following minor countries may have secondary districts added to them. There are no PP gained for adding a secondary district. These states remain in existence for purposes of rule 10.4.3.2 until the primary district is conquered by another major power.

10.4.1.1.2 Sweden-Norway: Norway can be made a secondary district of Sweden. This can be done regardless of whether Finland is also a secondary district of Sweden. Norway cannot be transferred to either Sweden or Denmark if it is presently a secondary district of the other. DB & JJ

10.4.1.1.3 Tripolitania-Cyrenaica: Cyrenaica may be a secondary district of Tripolitania. The Tripolitania-Cyrenaica multi-district minor (called Libya) exists at the start of the 1792 and 1805 campaigns. Once it is dissolved it may not be recreated. DB & JJ

These are fine. yes.

10.5.2.1 BEING IN THE INSTABILITY ZONE: If a major power commences the Minor Country Control Step of a Political Phase in the Instability Zone of the display, all of the conquered minor countries of that major power become neutral, unless there is an unbesieged corps or a 5 infantry garrison JJ of that major power in the minor country. EXCEPTIONS: see options 11.2.3.2, 11.5.3.2 and 11.6.3.2.

The original rule Allowed for a country that faces giving an Unconditional to another Power, strangely, just spread out only Corps (even with one infantry!) to hold minors. Troops is almost more reflective of the intent (Hesse won’t bolt from my control with my troops in her capital!). This will allow less “gamey” situations. YES!

I’ll continue with the Optional Rules tomorrow.

Missed this! Bonjour!

Just need one more…

Players, please comment on the above, if you have any comment, by 7 PM ESt 12/19/2018. After that, I’ll move on to Optional Rules.

It’s fine with me knowing nothing of the game!

That’s fine, just letting everyone know, and giving everyone the opportunity to ask more questions about why, etc. I’’m happy to explain stuff, or go into more rules background detail/historical detail, whatever.

Some of the optional rules I’m curious about. Looking forward to those.

Well, sneak-peak ahead, we’ll definitely use the alternate Dominant power rules. They help with overarrching game balance in that they aid in providing “National Interests” for the different powers. But they use carrots for the non-Dominant powers, and sticks for GB and France (things they need to do to not lose dominant power status).

Your explanations above about what you do and don’t want to use sound fine to me, knowing about the game only what you’ve posted.

I’m fine with those rules.

I’m completely fine with your reasoning on optional rules so far, except…

The Leader minimums rule, as a side-effect, giving Britain a land leader when by design it didn’t have one for the first year, does make me twitch a bit. I wonder if that’s enough to increase British options and change British play in that first year?

Not significantly IMO. I’ve played with it before as this was house-ruled for years. The leader is bad (and Historically, becomes a Dalrymple or other non-entity). That aspect is merely a bit more historical but has negligible game balance impact.

In fact, not waiting for Arthur Wellesly and beginning some adventure with the replacement leader might actually be a fool’s errand for the British player.

I’m more concerned with the Vassal module accommodating the counters and minor map tweaks we’ll need, but I am confident that I can find someone willing to do it for us relatively quickly (if not one if us).

I have no objection to the optional rules, your explanation was very helpful

Optional Rules Category 2 Review Optional Rules Section 11.0

  1. Parts 11.1 - 11.7 complete Yes.

This is yes to the inclusion of:

[ 11.1 ] POLAND (GRAND DUCHY OF WARSAW)
[ 11.2 ] THE KINGDOM OF ITALY
[ 11.3 ] * THE KINGDOM OF WESTPHALIA
[ 11.4 ] THE KINGDOM OF BAVARIA
[ 11.5 ] * THE CONFEDERATION OF THE RHINE
[ 11.6 ] * THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE
[ 11.7 ] * THE KINGDOM OF THE TWO SICILIES

I honestly never remember not playing with them. Every time. They are kind of essential to the game, really. Funny how they are listed as “Options”. YES.

Note: Regarding the alteration to 11.2 above (Kingdom of Italy) Romagna Not papacy MU. Yes. This just makes the Kingdom historically accurate and has zero gameplay impact.

[ 11.7a ] * CISAPLINE REPUBLIC: There are two obvious omissions in the starting situation of 1805 Campaign Games. Prior to 1805 Lombardy and Romagna were united as the Cisalpine Republic, re-established by the Treaty of Luneville in 1801 and governed (under the presidency of Bonaparte) by the liberal Italian nobleman Count Melzi. In January 1805 Napoleon converted the republic into the Kingdom of Italy, to which he added Venetia after the Treaty of Pressburg. The Treaty of Luneville also converted the Grand Duchy of Tuscany, which for most of the 18th c. had been a possession of a junior branch of the Habsburg dynasty, into the “Kingdom of Etruria”; in return for Spain’s cession of Louisiana to France, the new kingdom was transferred to a member of the House of Bourbon-Parma, who was also the nephew of the Spanish queen and the husband of a Spanish princess.

11.7a.1 CREATING THE CISAPLINE REPUBLIC: The Cisalpine Republic, consisting of the primary district of Lombardy and the secondary district of Romagna, begins 1805 campaign games as a French Free State with eleven infantry and one cavalry strength points.

11.7a.1.1: If destroyed, the Cisalpine Republic may not be recreated.

11.7a.2 USING THE CISAPLINE REPUBLIC: Once created, the Cisapline Republic is generally treated as a normal minor Free State. The combined money and manpower of its component parts are doubled (as in any minor Free State-see 8.2.3) in value and used in any desired way for the usual purposes. The combined money and manpower may be used to purchase Lombardian army factors. Garrison factors from the Cisapline Republic may be placed anywhere within Lombardy and/or Romagna.

11.7a.3 CONQUERING THE CISAPLINE REPUBLIC: If Lombardy is every ceded (with or without Romagna), then the Cisapline Republic is dissolved. Additionally, if the Kingdom of Italy is created later, the Cisalpine Republic is dissolved.

11.7a.4 CEDING THE CISAPLINE REPUBLIC: If the Cisapline Republic’s territories are ceded, either voluntarily or as a peace condition, they are ceded as separate minor countries and/or provinces. The political marker is never ceded, only removed if the conditions for the republic’s existence end. MLB & JJ

Good history with zero gameplay impact. Fine. Neat addition by these guys. Yes.

[ 11.8 ] * ALTERNATE DOMINANT POWERS

As I started earlier, YES. These rules help use gameplay to make the players “Role play” their countries effectively. Once again, I never remember not playing with these rules. Emphatic yes.

[ 11.9 ] * POLITICAL RESTRICTIONS ON PEACE:

Yes. Historically accurate, important for game balance. Again, I never remember these not being used. Ever. YES.

Optional Rules Category 3 Review Optional Rules Section 12.0 “Stuff from 12.0 that aren’t House Rules from the Group that compiled these rules”

You guys have to vote on two of these!

[ 12.1 ] * REINFORCEMENT OPTIONS:

12.1.1 MILITIA CONVERSION: During a Money and Manpower Expenditure Step, while at war with no other major power, a major power’s player may remove any militia factors located in controlled home nation territory from the map and pay three money points per militia factor to "convert" them to regular infantry factors. These new regular infantry factors are returned to the map as reinforcements three months later (ie., the same as newly-purchased regular infantry factors).

YES - This is one of those that is always played with. Impacts everyone equally. No big deal.

12.1.2 SHIP BUILDING LOCATIONS: When ships are purchased, the exact port or ports where these ships will become available when completed (ie., where they are being "built") must be noted and announced (their building is common knowledge). These ports are the only ones where these ships can become available as reinforcements.

12.1.2.1: If a port city containing building and/or completed but unassigned ships is occupied by an enemy, all of these major power ships are considered to be destroyed.

12.1.2.2: If a minor Free State port city containing building and/or completed but unassigned ships is occupied by an enemy, these minor power ships are not necessarily considered to be destroyed and, if building, construction can continue normally, as the major power that took the port desires (competitive die rolls determine the ships’ fate if a mixed force occupies the port and agreement cannot be reached). Control of these ships will eventually go to the major power that controls both the minor country fleet counter and the port, so that the ships can be transferred to the fleet.

YES - This lets Britain (usually) do what it did historically. Raid ports at times to destroy shipbuilding projects. This has no balance impact at all really. This does add some bookeeping for the players and if anyone objects on this one, it’s no skin off my nose.

[ 12.2 ] * NAVAL OPTIONS:

12.2.1 OPTIONAL SEA CROSSING ARROWS:

12.2.1.1 CHANNEL ARROW: Consider that there is a sea crossing arrow between the Lille area and the area east of Portsmouth.

NO - This makes An invasion of Perfidious Albion way too easy. It also isn’t that historically accurate, compared to the other arrows.

12.2.1.2 DANISH/SWEDISH SEA CROSSING ARROWS: These areas are extremely narrow and could be dominated even by the guns of the period. A fleet in the sea area cannot block any of the sea crossing arrows in Denmark or the one connecting the Copenhagen and Malmo areas if enemy corps and/or garrisons are located in both land areas connected by the arrows.

YES - This is historically accurate and doesn’t unbalance the game.

12.2.2 NAVAL RAIDING: For each sea area adjacent to Great Britain that contains an enemy fleet(s), British colonial trade is reduced by 5 money points (maximum reduction to 0). This is determined during an Economic Phase. Gen 25/4 This applies only during the Economic Phase. Gen 27/2

YES - Forces Great Britain to guard her home waters when threatened, historical and fun.

12.2.3 MOVING LARGE FLEETS/TRANSPORTS: Larger fleets or fleets convoying transports are not as mobile as smaller fleets.

12.2.3.1: These rules apply to fleets in an area that are all controlled by one major power and/or using combined movement. They do not apply to fleets in the same area that are controlled by different major powers that are not using combined movement.

12.2.3.2: Any fleet starting its Naval Phase in a stack where some or all of the fleets are transporting corps and/or contain a depot for invasion supply loses -1 movement point off of its movement allowance for the Naval Phase.

12.2.3.3: Any fleet starting its Naval Phase in a stack loses -1 movement point off of its movement allowance for the Naval Phase per fleet in the stack in excess of one fleet. For example, the movement allowance in a stack of two fleets would be reduced to 6 and, in a stack of three fleets, would be reduced to 5.

12.2.3.4: Rules 12.2.3.2 and 12.2.3.3 are cumulative if both apply. However, the maximum movement allowance reduction that ever applies is -3 movement points - a movement allowance of 4 movement points is the least to which a stack can be reduced.

12.2.3.5: These movement allowance reductions apply only to normal naval movement-they do not apply for naval retreat and pursuit movements.

NO - These are fiddly and strange. They ahistorically make seaborne invasions and raids much rarer than they were in the period. They also unbalance the game by making Napoleon’s Sealion barely credible.

12.2.4 REDUCED NAVAL TRANSPORT CAPACITY: If this option is used, rule 6.2.5 is modified to redefine carrying capacity. Fleets may carry no more than 10 army factors each, regardless of how these are organised into corps (the army factors must still be in corps). If transporting fleets are eliminated, all excess army factors that they were transporting are also eliminated these losses may be taken from various corps, if desired.

NO - See my comments on the last rule. Not as severe as the last rule, but the same factors apply.

12.2.5 PROPORTIONAL NAVAL LOSSES: When a stack of fleets of mixed nationalities (including minor country nationalities) participates in a combat, the losses it takes should be as nearly proportional to the starting proportions as possible. Round .5 and above up. When proportions do not "round out" precisely, an "odd" loss or losses should be assigned by mutual agreement or, if agreement cannot be reached, by competitive die rolls. For example, a stack of fleets totalling 68 ships contains 36 British (52.9%), 20 Swedish (29.4%) and 12 Portuguese (17.7%) ships and loses 10 ships in a naval combat. The losses should be 5.29 (5) British, 2.94 (3) Swedish and 1.77 (2) Portuguese ships.

YES - Emphatically. No “soaking off” with somebody else’s ships.

[ 12.3 ] LAND OPTIONS:

12.3.1 SUPPLY LIMITS PER DEPOT: Each individual depot that is a supply source or part of a valid supply chain may only be used to supply a maximum of four corps and/or besieged garrisons.

YES - Or the supply rules get completely out of whack and ridiculously pro-French.

12.3.2 BRITISH TRAINING: Great Britain proved quite adept at turning certain minor country troops into first-class soldiers, notably the Portuguese and Hanoverian (the "King’s German Legion" or "KGL") troops that they trained. Under this option, after 24 continuous months as a British-controlled minor Free State, the morale of the army factors in the Hanover or Portugal corps is considered to be 4.0 for both infantry and cavalry in those corps. Garrison infantry factors of these nationalities retain their usual (2.0) morale.

YES - Yes: Historicity, Balance (the British need it) and fun.

12.3.3 CAVALRY OPTIONS:

12.3.3.1 CAVALRY SUPERIORITY: If a side has at least twice as many cavalry factors (including cossacks and freikorps) as the other side at the beginning of any round of a field, limited field or trivial combat (if necessary, recalculate the number of cavalry factors present for every combat round), the superior side gets +1 added to its combat die roll. NOTES: The net maximum modifier to a combat die roll for all modifiers is +1. Cavalry factors in an outflanking force are not counted for cavalry superiority until the outflanking force "arrives" (see 7.5.2.12). Cavalry factors in an outflanking force that has arrived are not counted as double factors for purposes of determining cavalry superiority. This rule does not apply if all factors on both sides are cavalry.

YES - Historicity, Balance (the French deserve it and the Turks need it) and fun. Never played without it.

12.3.3.2 CAVALRY WITHDRAWALS: A defending cavalry corps stacked alone or only with other cavalry corps and/or cossacks/freikorps has its strategic rating (or that of its commanding leader) increased by +1 for withdrawal purposes only (see 7.5.2.5.2.2). This rule does not apply if the attacker is also an all-cavalry force and/or if the commanding leader has a strategic rating of 5. Gen 25/4 The Austrian Light Infantry Corps IS considered to be a cavalry corps for this purpose. Gen 27/2

YES - Historicity, Balance (the French deserve it and the Turks & Austrians need it) and fun.

12.3.4 GUARD COMMITMENT: Before the resolution of a combat round commences (see 7.5.2.8 for sequencing), a player with a guard or grenadier corps involved may choose to "commit the guard" and announces that this is being done. If a force includes guard or grenadier corps of two or more nationalities, only one corps may be used for this purpose. A player may do this only once per day of combat.

12.3.4.1: If both sides have guard and/or grenadier corps, the decision to commit or not and (if applicable) the number of morale levels of the shift must be written down by both side’s players at the start of every combat round and revealed simultaneously.

12.3.4.2: The effect of committing the guard is to increase the morale level used on the Combat Resolution Table by +1 or +2. For example, the 3-2 combat table becomes the 3-3 (increased by +1) or 3-4 (increased by +2) combat table.

12.3.4.3: Only two or more guard factors of French and/or Russian guards may be used to attempt to increase the morale level by +2. One or more guard factors of Austrian, French, Prussian and/or Russian guard factors may be used to increase the morale level by +1. Despite these minimums, all available guard factors of a nationality that is committed must be used for this. Turkish (See 12.10.2), British and/or Spanish guard factors may not be committed.

12.3.4.4: The player who commits his guard then consults the GUARD COMMITMENT TABLE on the Game Card and rolls a die. The die roll is cross-referenced with the column showing the number of morale levels shifted. The result is the number of guard factors automatically lost (in addition to any that may be lost during the coming combat round).

12.3.4.5: If at least one guard factor of the committed nationality is left, then the combat round proceeds, with the modified morale level. The lost guard factors do not participate in the combat round. If all committed guard factors were lost, then the committing side is automatically considered to break without fighting that combat round (although the opposing side still fights).

12.3.4.6: If at least one guard factor survives and the combat round is fought with the modified morale level, the other side must be broken during that combat round or the side that committed the guard is automatically considered to be broken.

YES - Never played without it. Part of the heart and soul of the combat system.

12.3.5 ARTILLERY CORPS: The French and Russian major powers each have the use of an artillery corps. These have special uses during field and limited field combats, trivial combats and limited field combats. These special uses do not apply during siege assaults or defender attacks (unless a relieving force is available for a limited field combat).

12.3.5.1: In every combat round (see 7.5.2.8 for sequencing) the artillery may be used to "bombard" before normal combat is resolved, the casualties inflicted by bombardment taking no part in later combat. If both sides possess artillery, the bombardment losses are considered to be determined simultaneously.

12.3.5.2: The losses removed by bombardment may not be militia, where possible, if the side taking the bombardment losses already has a morale loss of 2.0 or greater.

12.3.5.3: Artillery bombardment inflicts only casualties-it has no effect on morale (ignore morale losses when doing an artillery bombardment).

12.3.5.4: Artillery always bombards using the 5-5 table, irrespective of the tables being used for the normal combat round. Artillery bombardment is unaffected by any terrain other than marsh-there can be no bombardment in marsh terrain, although the artillery factors still participate in normal combat.

12.3.5.5: Artillery also takes part during the normal combat round (ie., when used for bombardment it effectively gets to fight twice).

12.3.5.6: If at any time during a combat round a side (or the pinning force of a side) consists of only artillery factors, that side is automatically considered to break.

YES - Played without it only once. It just really has so much color. No reason not to use it. Period Color. Unique national abilities add color. really why so many of these are “must haves”. The uniqueness of each Nation; the quirkiness of each nation is what makes this game such a thing of beauty.

12.3.6 PROPORTIONAL LAND LOSSES: When army factors of mixed nationality (including minor country nationalities) participate in a combat, the losses suffered should be as nearly proportional to the starting proportions as possible. Round .5 and above up. When proportions do not "round out" precisely, an "odd" loss or losses should be assigned by mutual agreement or, if agreement cannot be reached, by competitive die rolls. Once the number of army factors lost by each contingent are determined, the controlling players decide the types of factors to be lost by each contingent (within the normal limits for militia, cavalry, guard, etc. factors that must be lost by the whole army) by mutual agreement or, if impossible, by competitive die rolls.

YES - No soak offs with the bad troops.

12.3.7 ARMY LEADER OPTIONS:

12.3.7.1 CORPS LEADERS: For purposes of combats (although without a leader counter corps must still attempt to withdraw or reinforce individually), when no leader is available for a multi-corps force and the best corps rating is used, treat these best corps ratings the same as if the force were commanded by a leader with those strategic and tactical ratings and a tactical maximum rating of 1 and modify accordingly (see 10.6.1.2.1).

YES - Common sense. Never played without it.

12.3.7.2 FURTHER TACTICAL RATING REDUCTIONS: This option extends rule 10.6.1.2.1 by allowing a commander with three times the corps of the tactical maximum rating to have the tactical rating reduced by -3, with four times the corps to be reduced by -4, etc. The tactical rating can still never be reduced to below zero.

YES - Common sense. Never played without it.

12.3.7.3 NAPOLEON’S RATINGS: Napoleon’s military skill slipped noticeably as he got older. If this option is used, the NAPOLEON leader’s tactical rating is reduced to 4 starting in January, 1809 and the strategic rating reduced to 4 starting in January, 1812. These reductions do not apply for combats fought within the original French home nation boundaries.

We Must Vote on this! - I have played with and without. I think that using this rule imposes a certain historical interpretation on Napoleon’s abilities and te reasons for his success militarily that is quite debatable. @Juan_Raigada, @Mark_Weston, @Kolbex, @Panzeh, @MiquelRamirez, @Cuthbert you all gotta vote on this one. I’ll vote last.

12.3.8 DETACHING/ABSORBING MINOR FREE STATE FACTORS: If players wish to allow Free State factors to be detached as garrisons outside of the Free State’s borders, they may do so, but the players must keep side notes on the nationalities of garrisons, mark nationalities on grey garrison/strength counters placed outside of a Free State’s borders or make their own garrison/strength counters for the various possible minor Free States.

YES - I don’t recall ever playing without this one…it becomes easier to track this one in Vassal, but if anyone doesn’t want the bookkeeping chore, speak up. I think it isn’t a big deal, personally.

12.3.9 NO CEDING: Allow the ceding of minor countries only as a peace term and at no other times. Gen 23/4

NO - Pretending that Minor Countries weren’t traded like horses or baseball cards is 21st Century nonsense.

12.3.10: OVERWHELMING NUMBERS: Field or limited field combats where one side has a 5:1 or better ratio in strength factors MUST be resolved using trivial combat. EXCEPTION: An outnumbered DEFENDER may attempt to withdraw before the trivial combat by rolling the commander’s strategic rating or less. Gen 25/4

YES - No need for a “Grande Bataille” when they will just be crushed anyway.

[ 12.4 ] * PEACE TREATY LIMITED ACCESS: This option supersedes the force repatriation rules in 4.4.6.2 and forces are not repatriated when peace is made. Instead, when peace is made, the former enemies have a period of automatic "limited access" to get their forces out of the former enemy power’s territory.

12.4.1 GARRISONS: By the end of three Land Phases after peace is made, all garrison factors must be out of the other major power’s cities. In the case of a victor that chose peace condition C.5, the requirement is reduced to getting garrisons out of the capital cities during this period.

12.4.2 CORPS, FLEETS AND DEPOTS: By the end of six Land Phases after peace is made, all corps, fleets, depots and depot garrison factors must be out of the other major power’s territory. This requirement can be ignored by a victor that chose peace condition C.5.

12.4.3 FAILURE TO LEAVE: Any forces that have not met the requirements in 12.4.1 and 12.4.2 in the required times must be demobilised and/or scuttled during the next Reinforcement Phase (NOTE: rule 5.1.4.2 limitations on scuttling may be ignored to meet this requirement) unless the major power controlling the territory grants voluntary access (see 10. 3).

NO - Harry Rowland added some chrome that took a simple rule that worked wonderfully and added a load of complex balderdash to no purpose. NO!!

[ 12.5 ] * ECONOMIC MANIPULATION: Economic manipulation simulates the ability of a major power to control its economy to gain the additional political points, money or manpower that are needed. Economic manipulation takes place during the Manipulation Step of an Economic Phase (see 8.4). Performing economic manipulation consists of first recording changes from the last economic manipulation setting and then resetting the ECONOMIC MANIPULATION DISPLAY on side one of each major power’s National Card (even if side two is used for everything else, this display on side one should be used with this option during a campaign game) for the next economic manipulation. The setting is always in the 0 square at the start of a campaign and 8.4. 1 restrictions can limit the ability to use other settings.

12.5.1 RECORDING ECONOMIC MANIPULATION: Major Powers gain or lose the number of political points specified by the large Political Status Adjustment ("PSA") number in the square of its ECONOMIC MANIPULATION DISPLAY in which that major power’s economic manipulation marker is positioned. This square also specifies gains or losses in money and/or manpower. Record any political point changes on the POLITICAL STATUS DISPLAY on the Status Card and add or subtract the money and manpower from the totals determined during the Money and Manpower Collection Step.

12.5.2 SETTING ECONOMIC MANIPULATION: The owning player then sets the economic manipulation marker’s position to any square on the ECONOMIC MANIPULATION DISPLAY. This position specifies the PSA number and amount of money and/or manpower to be gained or lost in the next Economic Phase’s Manipulation Step.

We Must Vote on this! - I have played with and without. I think that using this rule has implications on the tone of the game, allowing for a more “peaceful” decade of play. It also favors the “rich” (GB, France, Russia)… @Juan_Raigada, @Mark_Weston, @Kolbex, @Panzeh, @MiquelRamirez, @Cuthbert you all gotta vote on this one. I’ll vote last.

[ 12.6 ] BLANK FORMS: Copies of the blank forms found on side two of the Minor Countries National Card and the back of the Status Card can be filled out and used to provide a written record of when and what happened. Copies of these forms, when cut apart and filled in, not only provide reference during a game but, if used faithfully, they provide a good record of the major events in a game. Some samples are filled in below.

N/A

[ 12.7 ] LEADER CASUALTIES: After the completion of a field or limited field combat, a trivial combat, or a naval combat, each side with a leader or leaders present checks to see if any became casualties in the combat by rolling two dice. Rolling a 12 indicates a leader casualty. If a casualty is indicated, randomly choose a leader counter from among those present (if more than one is present) and roll one die for the chosen leader. If a 6 is rolled, the leader casualty is "killed" and taken permanently from the game. On any other roll, the leader casualty is "wounded" and taken from the map for a number of complete months equal to the die roll number.

YES - Goes hand in hand with the Replacement Leaders rule discussed previously.

12.7.1 KEY LEADER SURVIVAL: Each player will choose one “key leader”, who cannot be killed. If that “key leader” rolls a 12 then a 6, during the above process in rule 12.7, instead of killing the “key leader” change the result to a 12 month injury.

12.7.1.1 CHOOSING THE “KEY LEADER”: At the start of the game, each player will choose one leader who cannot be killed. For some countries, their key best leader enters as a reinforcement, ie. Blucher or Wellington. If the leader enters as a reinforcement, the player may instead choose another leader (if he possesses one) from the start until the time that the leader arrives. When the chosen leader arrives as a reinforcement, the secondary choice returns to being a normal leader. Similarly, if using the optional rule that removes Kutusov, and Kutusov is chosen as the Key leader, Russia may choose another leader as the “Key Leader” when Kutusov is removed.

YES - Colorful, and it happened in the period. Anything that juices up the Leaders (a wonderful dynamic in the game) and gives you more (and possibly difficult) choices with them is a good thing.

[ 12.8 ] * ALLIED VOLUNTARY ACCESS: Amend the rules in 10.3.1.2.2 to state that voluntary access may be granted only to an ally.

NO - Yeah, never understood this one.

[ 12.9 ] * AMERICAN TRADE OPTION: The War of 1812 between Great Britain and the United States was to some extent "engineered" by Napoleon and his "continental system." In this option, if peace condition B.6 is applied to stop as major power’s American trade, this counts as a major power denied trade with America for the die roll required in 8.2.1.2.2.2.2 and the British must make the die roll during any Money and Manpower Collection Step in which any major powers are denied American trade by Britain and/or by the B.6 peace condition.

YES - Colorful and fun.

Remember you guys have to vote on two of these!

I vote No on Napoleon. The other one sounds interesting but if it only helps the rich powers I guess I also vote No

Man, this is voting procedure is complex as a filling in an Australian Senate ballot

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For one, I am not sure what it means we need to vote on two of these, but then there’s like three which seem to be mandatory voting?

I hope you don’t rule my ballot “informal”, but here I go over each of the options you mention:

  • 12.1: YES
  • 12.1.2: Not sure how many ships - other than British ones - will be launched in a game. ABSTAIN
  • 12.2.1.1.: NO
  • 12.2.1.2: YES
  • 12.2.2: YES
  • 12.2.3: This one seems to me to try to reflect acurately the frustrating nature of joint French and Spanish naval ops. That is, a dog and pony show. However, with those rules and invasion of Southern England may just not be feasible, even if France manages to convince the Spanish fleet to go after a revenge match for 1588. NO.
  • 12.2.4: NO.
  • 12.2.5: YES please
  • 12.3: YES
  • 12.3.2: Sounds like Mother Britannia Educates the Continentals in the Ways of Civilization bias to me. Need to keep the bookkeeping for that. ABSTAIN.
  • 12.3.3.1: YES
  • 12.3.3.2: YES
  • 12.3.4. YES
  • 12.3.5: YES. This is a historical tactical advantage of the French and Russian armies.
  • 12.3.6. YES
  • 12.3.7.1: YES
  • 12.3.7.2: YES
  • 12.3.7.3: YES, I tend to agree with that notion to a certain extent (and Charles Esdaile does too). Also, he lost some of his best collaborators (Corps commanders) over the years, and his opponents studied his tactics and personality making him more predictable (thinking of General Mack’s decision making in the 1805 campaign versus that of Wellington in 1815).
  • 12.3.8: YES
  • 12.3.9: NO
  • 12.3.10: YES. No ant defences, thanks.
  • 12.4: Looks superfluous. NO
  • 12.5: This looks to me slightly ahistorical in the following sense: I think only France had the bureaucratic means and the political culture to allow for something like that. NO.
  • 12.6:
  • 12.7: Looks a bit like a rule to fit in Sir John Moore. The chances of having leader casualties are very low (like 1:72), but sure those rolls will add some tension. YES
  • 12.7.1: Makes sense to avoid anticlimactic stuff like Nappy being beheaded by a cannonball or something freaky. YES.
  • 12.8: ? NO.
  • 12.9: YES.

I vote yes, but ONLY if for the tactical rating he fails a hemorrhoids check to see if they are acting up that day,

I vote no, in the interests of as little peace as possible and not favoring the rich countries to the possible detriment of the poorer countries players’ enjoyment.

@MiquelRamirez You only get to vote for two things:

12.3.7.3 NAPOLEON’S RATINGS:

[ 12.5 ] * ECONOMIC MANIPULATION:

I think everyone else got that…(because I said, in the the text next to each one of them “We must vote on this!”…and then I say twice in the post, " Remember you guys have to vote on two of these!"…). :)

Just sayin’…

I’ll take that as a “yes” and a “no”.

So for the rule as is, then, this is a no?

Hmm, I obviously miscounted :)