Yeah, but we can’t have a system that doesn’t allow for mistakes. We’re human, imperfect in nearly every way. We have an entire topic dedicated to basically crappy apologies for people who are responding to accusations poorly. It was always unrealistic to think the accusers themselves wouldn’t make mistakes.
Sure this sucks for him. He’s guilty of poor decision making and sounds like a pretty shitty lover but nothing else, but there is enough backlash with this that I think anyone dealing with him doesn’t have to take anything away from him.
Everyone was so afraid that we’d wind up with a fake, completely made-up claim that would just send MeToo into the flames and no one would know how to recover it… so everyone’s looking for that, looking for the lie.
What we got instead, was a truth that doesn’t really fit the movement… so do two wrongs make right? I wasn’t raised that way… so no I don’t think he will look better by going after her. it might feel good for a minute, might even make others feel good and later down the road…not so much.
Another article suggested there was a reason other news sites didn’t go after this story, so Babe might not fair well with this in the end. We just need to know how to bring to an end, and I think that’s already happening.
I second this. Men and woman view the world differently, probably even more than generational difference, so I appreciate her perspective.
The entire college rape culture had me pissed off. It was these sort of hair-splitting, that often felt unfair to men and infantilizing women. If two 18 year kids get passed out drunk and they have sex, isn’t the real problem 18-year olds getting passed out drunk.
In contrast, I’ve been delighted with the #metoo movement. I’m happy to see sexual predator being exposed and punished. The fact that many of them are powerful men, in high visibility position is an added bonus. Even if they are in some case men who’ve worked I’ve liked.
I like to see to shift to the reporting of folks in less glamorous fields besides, Hollywood, the media, finance, and tech. I got to believe there are plenty of bars, restaurant, hotel, retail store, and factory manager/owners who don’t awful stuff to women and deserve some public shaming, just as much as famous people.
But cases like Aziz distract and really dilute the message. If Aziz loses his job because of this and get blacklisted, then it going to cause a backlash, against #metoo.
Ugh. The fact that you now feel comfortable making a judgment on Aziz Ansari skills as a lover based on a one-sided article on a website is pretty fucking shitty.
This whole situation is pretty fucking shitty, on all sides.
That conversation if further up, but feel free to continue to past judgment on me. I expect people who have sex together to actually pay attention to the other person. I will not lower my standards simply because someone else thinks otherwise.
Exactly, and that has been brought up now by many people. One POV by a person who “exposed” someone else while hiding her own identity. I hope he doesn’t give her name, but if he should give his story and use her name could you blame him.
No. I would think less of him but not really blame him.
The problem is, I don’t know how you can believe one part of her story but not the other. There is no reason to believe anything she said isn’t true… it’s not even that flattering to herself.
But challenge his manhood, oh no! Anything but that. Bah. If she’s not having a good time and he doesn’t see it or realize it, yep, awful… but not a crime.
It was just a weird story. It reads like she was naked most of the time, that they did things that I guess only Pres. Clinton doesn’t consider sex. I just don’t understand her need to see her story made public for any reason.
No she really didn’t exactly. Charmtrap just took issue with my remark. They had oral sex at some point which is oddly detailed to be in the story it’s just… if your date is pulling away, acting cold, not into it… someone who wrote a book on Modern Romances should probably pickup on that. Just saying. Considerate lovers are usually more aware than that but that was discussed above. Apparently there are different ideas on what normal consensual sex should be like, and in my book, it should not be one-sided.
You can usually tell if someone is into it or not though. And again, this is a guy who wrote a book on Modern Romances… that should indicate he has some knowledge on how to read… women right? Or he just put a bunch of bullshit on a page and is clueless like everyone else… I suppose that’s a possibility.
I haven’t read it yet, but I did see his stand-up special that covers the topic. So I think the book is primarily about how dating and relationships are being affected by our devices like dating apps and how to read or misread text messages. I don’t think he gets into sex or intimacy.
There’s also a great episode of Master of None about being single and using dating apps to meet and go out with a variety of people. It’s wonderful and hilarious and lovely and a little sad.
This story affects me in zero ways, but has made me aware of this is. I might have to look at his stuff.
And while it’s true people behave different in bed, we don’t change to different animals or anything. If she reacted the way she said she did, and yes I know it’s just her word we have to go on, unless the guy was hammered or something, you shouldn’t be able to tell if someone is into something. Being into something is a little different then being like against it… it should feel… right, better.
If you have Netflix, I totally recommend that episode about life with a dating app. It’s called First Date and it’s Season 2, episode 4. It works as a stand-alone story so you don’t need to watch what came before. I thought it was really funny and illuminating for a guy like me who’s way past dating age.
This is how she remembered events after the fact. “Pulling away, acting cold, not into it” is not a determinate reaction. It can be easily misread, especially by a horny guy in the heat of the moment. Aziz acted too aggressively, and I fully expect he’s a human being about it and regrets doing harm. Communication was not working, and that’s a problem from both sides. Aziz deserves plenty of blame for what happened that night, but I don’t think it’s right to shame a guy like this.
That said, I appreciate hearing the different sides of the discussion. There are valid points made by everyone, and it’s productive to have the conversation.
Yeah, because this whole thread is about the feelings of sportsball players, it’s incredibly relevant to include them in the discussion.
I’ve understood this. Context matters. Only, the context here isn’t consensual sports, so can we just imagine that all my statements include “except for consensual sport competitions and things like that” and move on from that derailing path?
Seriously this is the worst kind of arguing: “your statement isn’t valid because of [thing from a completely different context]” which is why I’ve been ignoring it. Thanks for making me address it.
Even in the context of intimate relationships, making someone feel bad isn’t always wrong.
Common example: You decide to break up with someone who cares for you, you know this will make them feel bad, and indeed they do feel bad. That doesn’t mean you were wrong.
I guess we have different definitions of doing something wrong, and I mean different definitions in the sense of communicating what we mean not in any moral judgement way. I think I understand what you mean now. I agree that causing unintentional distress is not morally wrong, it is accidents that can happen. What I meant was that I still consider that a bad outcome, even though no one may be to blame.
Yes, and that hurt may or may not also have been unintentional. If we give Aziz the benefit of the doubt that he did not intend to hurt Grace, we could also give her the benefit of the doubt that her telling the story was not intended to hurt Aziz.
That’s a tough one for me to agree with. Based on Aziz and her versions of the story she texted him afterwards that their interactions were not okay in her mind. He apologized. If the Babe story wasn’t meant to embarrass or punish Aziz, what was the goal in naming him?
A refresher: the original context was this that Quaro quoted:
In the ensuing thread this seems to have widened to some kind of general statement. That was never my intention. So in the original context, I still argue that exploiting, or even just not caring about, the above kind of vulnerability and causing distress there, is wrong. In your analogy, it would be breaking up with someone after their parent just died or something. No matter the reason for the breakup, I will never not consider that a shitty move.
