We don’t know how much of the Babe story is Grace’s story. She didn’t write it. She told it to the reporter. I can easily imagine a situation where you are feeling hurt and will tell the story to anyone who will listen, because telling it helps heal the hurt. In those situations, you might not consider what will happen with the story after you told it.
Maybe so.
But I don’t think Grace’s confusion was anywhere near that sort of exceptional vulnerability that demands special attention. It was a rather ordinary sort of confusion, to be handled by ordinary means.
So if Ansari had chosen to break up the relationship on the spot and send Grace home, he would not necessarily have been wrong. Even if he caused her to feel bad in the setting of vulnerability.
I’m not usually a Guardian fan myself, but this is worth reading.
I’m posting from phone. Not sure how to embed links.
And predictive text is the devil.
edit - so I can just link it without embedding and it works fine.
Also, there’s this story:
Some guys out there clearly need some guidance/training.
Hooray! Because…
…I’m not arguing, you goofball; I’m explaining and trying to help your earlier statements fit more logically with the discussion at hand. When someone doesn’t seem to be making sense, creating a parallel dynamic to gauge their response is helpful to get a better view of where they’re coming from. You see, here’s the thing;
NOBODY IS SAYING IT ISN’T.
However, nobody here is a telepath, hence the ongoing discussion about communication—including verbal and non-verbal queues—and the responsibility to clarify and understand.
Is Grace dumb? I’m not asking to be mean to her, but if I talk to a reporter, any reporter about anything, I would assume that whatever I say may end up in publication. In this current climate, a reporter from a muckraking social media story site like Babe asking about a past bad sexual encounter with a celebrity, isn’t asking questions for the heck of it. They’re printing names and getting hits. I seriously doubt Grace didn’t know how Aziz was going to look in the story.
The fact she didn’t seek out Babe, but rather Babe sought her out gives her some credit in my book, but let’s not play coy about whether or not she knew Aziz was going to get smeared in the story. Not for nothing, but Babe’s manifesto is “Babe is for girls who don’t give a fuck.”
I don’t agree with that. I have seen women themselves describe themselves as “pillow princesses.” Act like starfish (to use the term). If you went by the way these people act and their non-verbal cues, you would assume there is a problem. While at the same time, they will tell you that they are enjoying it. Probably a bit TMI, but I have had one woman actually get quite angry with me for checking in if things are okay (given her seeming lack of enthusiasm), because she told me she was enjoying it, and why was I questioning her about it. (It is relatively poor manners in that case to respond with, "Because you’re laying there like a fucking starfish not moving.)
All people are different. Having to guess at non-verbal cues, other than really obvious ones like being pushed away, is ridiculous, particularly after sex has already started.
Whether we like it or not, I think that is also part of the problem here, that there is a continuum. I understand that we live in an age where you are supposed to get consent for accidentally bumping someone’s elbow. But like it or not, context does matter. The woman was naked, and he had just given her oral sex. Does that give him a right to rape her afterward if she says no? No. Is that going to make most people assume that she is “into it” unless she makes a fairly clear statement to the contrary? Yes.
Things do not happen in a vacuum. The level of assurance that you need to make the next move after someone has allowed you to give them oral sex is much lower than if you are sitting next to someone at a bar. Whether we admit it or not, most men are also going to be more aggressive about getting sex after you let them perform a sex act on you than they would be before that. Again, it does not mean they can rape you. But it does mean that you have to live in the real world, and not be surprised that after a guy goes down on you, he may be somewhat insistent in trying to get more than that.
Maybe telling her friends, but telling an internet source that used his name and not hers…no, she meant (or was used) to hurt Aziz.
He clearly should have gotten written permission…:O
I think what women tell guys and what women tell women is different. For example, most women will never tell a guy that she faked an orgasm… especially with him. They will tell their girlfriends. Telling if someone is into it isn’t, for example, related to how loud she is. It’s a little harder than that. It would be pretty individual to each person. I assume it’s the same with guys, as in his tells will vary based on who he is.
I don’t know if Grace remembers correctly or not, but kissing someone who isn’t kissing back… that’s not a pillow princess. I mean she describes like turning away not just… lying there.
Jesus. The author from Babe isn’t doing herself any favors.
What the hell was she thinking? You do not attack a woman because of her age, because you don’t like her hair or lipstick. None of that has anything to with whether or not the story was discussed in the right forum. Ashleigh Banfield also brought up age, and not in a good way too so maybe they should both lay off that.
Oof. It’s fairly clear that everyone involved in “Babe.com” is under 25, and a little stupid.
Edit: Oooooops. It’s Babe.net…babe.com is something else entirely and possibly NSFW.
Yeah, Babe.com doesn’t really seem to be up to date with things like professionalism or journalistic ethics.
I pointed it out earlier. The site’s manifesto is “Babe is for girls that don’t give a fuck.” That pretty much tells you what you need to know about their journalistic integrity.
Maybe I’m different but I don’t talk about sex with other guys.
That a valid choice but as this Vox piece puts it nicely.
What she describes — a man repeatedly pushing sex without noticing (or without caring about) what she wants — is something many, many women have experienced in encounters with men. And while few men have committed the litany of misdeeds of which Weinstein has been accused, countless men have likely behaved as Grace says Ansari did — focusing on their own desires without recognizing what their partner wants.
This was brought up a lot when I was younger, and not as frequently but still there with my lady friends and their husbands.
Pillow princess implies she’s just sitting there and waiting for hers… recognizing your partner has needs and wants, which goes both ways, does not make anyone a pillow princess.
A bad sexual encounter is not something that is going to be silent, hell even Grace texted on the way home about it. That’s pretty normal. It making to the national news… is not.
Again, not at all normal for me, nor do I hear things like that from male friends. I think this may be more of a female thing.
I almost never talk about sex with my friends, and when I do it’s in the most abstract way. I saved my unpacking for my shrink, when I had a shrink. I’m kind of a prude, though.
I’ll take “Immature young women who blackballed themselves in the field of writing and journalism” for 500, Alex.
What an immature baby. No wonder she wrote that attack piece, no wonder she sought “Katie” out. What a joke.
No media outlet with any clout will ever touch her. I hope her job at that hack site is secure, she may have to stay there a while.
They should change their tagline to “Babe.net is for girls that don’t give a fuck, by girls who don’t know shit.”
The fact that a 22-year-old “journalist” for what amounts to a glorified tabloid/blog would attack a seasoned news veteran who has been a war correspondent and interviewed some of the most influential people in the world on her credentials, then go on to insult her appearance, just shows what totally fucking clueless hacks the people at Babe.net really are. You’re a “reporter”, do 30 seconds of research on a person before you embarrass yourself by sending them a ridiculous email. That’s the sort of thing that kills a journalistic career before it’s even begun.