The New Iran Treaty


#401

But Iran wouldn’t take that deal, unless Iran was basically choosing to just do all the limitations voluntarily as part of their deal with other countries.

Because the US no longer has any leverage. That’s why Trump’s “plan” here is so idiotic. He’s just an imbecile.


#402

Boeing deal dead. Such a dealmaker, our Preznint.


#403

Well, in answer to my own question (could this had happened if the Iran deal had been a treaty passed by the Senate), apparently that answer is no:


#404

With the giant letters calling them liars or whatever it was?


#405

Time to buy stock in airbus, i guess.

The engines for the 737 MAX is made in the South Carolina plant, i think, so fuck those guys.


#406

No one is saying it’s not something that benefits Trump (in his own perception, at least); we’re saying it has no upside for the country. You know, the people the President is supposed to serve, and all that? No, there is no positive thing whatsoever for the nation as a whole. Maybe for warmongers, maybe for narcissistic politicians, but for the American people? Not so much.


#407

As I understand it there is a 3 month period between now and when the new sanctions et al. will take into affect.

There is a part of me that’s suspects that he will try to use this period to goad N.Korea into getting a ‘better deal’ than Iran and once that’s hashed over he will try to renegotiate with Iran to a new deal will have enough changes for him to claim victory and move on.


#408

You mistakenly give credit to Trump and his lackeys for having any chess knowledge at at all.


#409

Except there is no reason anyone would negotiate with the US anymore on these things.


#410

Well, there’s also the problem that, who knows what “good” means when we’re talking to Trump about a deal? I mean, even pre-Trump the USA couldn’t figure out what a good deal on any of this stuff was, given that a chunk of the leadership at any given time seems to feel that any treaty or agreement that isn’t abject surrender to 'Murica is somehow giving away the store. The current administration, to the extent you can even speak of it having anything remotely like a consistent belief system, seems to feel that “good” means “you do everything we tell you to, and abase yourself. as well.” Hardly a recipe for negotiation, even if you could trust us.


#411

What I don’t understand is why the Iran deal was and is a partisan issue. If Trump was to somehow broker a nuclear containment deal with North Korea, I’d be on the front lines applauding, even though I think he’s generally an unmitigated disaster of a President and a terrible human being. I guess I’d really like someone who understands the situation and opposes the deal to do an ELI5 about why. Start with Obama’s statement about withdrawing and explain line-by-line where it’s misleading or wrong. From my perspective, I can’t imagine how anyone could oppose it. It seems like the only possible leverage we have against Iran is either an international agreement or threat of invasion. And dear god what a disaster war with Iran would be.


#412

Because of Israel. Netanyahu made it a partisan issue.


#413

Israel has reallllly upped their attacks on Iranian positions in Syria.

https://twitter.com/SulomeAnderson/status/994266735426637826


#414

US broke contract on this. Iran was independently verified as being fully complaint.

Oh, the rest of the world is to trust any agreements signed by the US whilst that cretin is in power?

Not any more.

/golfclap


#415

Yep. I’m sure all the Trumpkins are cheering about sticking it to those Iranians when all he really did was stick it right in our own eye.

As others have mentioned, what does the US gain from this? Even if you think the previous Iran deal was a “bad deal”, what do we get by reneging on our agreement? We’re the villain here, and rightfully so. Europe has no reason to abide by the sanctions Trump might want to impose and nor should they.

Just a colossal clusterfuck all around. What a coup by Putin and the FSB this has been. I wish I was separated by 50 years so I could appreciate it as a neutral observer reading about history instead of living through the fallout.


#416

But you’ll have to be a cockroach to do that.


#417

It’s the League of Nations all over again.


#418

Wow $20 billion is a shit load of jobs and non trivial amount of corporate taxes.


#419

Looks like Boeing hits a bit under 100 billion in revenue per year – pretty big deal to lose.


#420

I argued pretty strongly against the deal and I’m sure I’m spent five times more reading the actual deal, learning about the inspection regime, and understanding that detail than our shit-for-brains than our president did.

My objection to the deal was number #1, I thought for sure the Iranian would cheat, small time at first, bigger as time went on, and we’d spend hours constantly debate among the JCOPA members if the Iran doing X constituted material breach. It seems by all accounts the Iranian are living up to both the spirit and letter of the agreement, so I was wrong about that.

My other objection was that Iranian agreement, is for all intensive purposes a treaty, it places a binding set of actions (unlike the Paris Climate agreement) on future administration. As such it should have been ratified by the Senate. Now I appreciate that Congress is one giant cluster-fuck and has been as such for a long-time. I don’t know how fix it, and while I know the sentiment on the board is just to throw out all the Republicans, it’s not an long-term viable solution.

All that being said, I’m with Kevin. I hate that US is the villain in this situation. If the US does bad shit, we should at least be doing for reasons of our national interest, and this case is the exact opposite.