4652

Well, now I feel more guilty about the burger I had yesterday.

I guess I’m on track to be a vegetarian in the future.

4653

Elephants remember their dead, and because they follow well-established migratory paths, they often return to places where one of their family has died. When they do, they basically hold memorial ceremonies, as if the family member has just died. Watch them for an hour at play and you’ll know they’re intelligent. I really can’t grasp how anyone could kill one other than in self-defense or possibly as food, though the latter is a stupid feeding strategy.

4654

You and me both. I was raised by a NRA gun nut. My dad wasn’t the type to care about putting some food on the table, he just enjoys shooting animals. As a kid I thought the guns were really cool, but by the time I was 10-11 it just struck me how fucking gross and wrong the whole thing was. Why are we out here shooting animals? I can’t recall a single time he actually brought something back to put on the dinner table, it was all just about roaming around and blowing up meat-filled target dummies for him.

That feeling of revulsion has only grown in the 30 years since, mostly related to trophy hunting. I don’t really care about people hunting deer and the like when they make use of the venison, especially since without hunting their population will get out of control and a lot will suffer. But stuff like hunting elephants and the like? It makes me sick. They should sell licenses to hunt those people.

4655

I read a story last year about one of the big reserves in central Africa, where they were developing an anti-poaching force. Basically they hired SAS and SF types to train former local soldiers on LRP and seek-and-destroy tactics, and then these squads of men patrolled the reserve looking for poachers and killing them. Now that’s an anti-poaching program.

4656

Film that – turn it into a reality TV show. Use the profits to buy up and guard the habitats. It’s a little bit…

… but I’m half serious.

4657

Ideally, we’d just re-introduce wolves and eliminate that issue (mostly joking…but not entirely).

4658

The show Meat Eater is actually pretty good, and a few seasons are on Netflix. I find that Steven Rinella, the host and lead of the show, is respectful of both the animals and regulations in hunting them. Recommended and a bit of a counterpoint to those that think hunting is always morally wrong.

Part of me thinks that in hunting is morally superior to grocery store meat - it’s actually pretty gross how we treat our domesticated meat animals (though it doesn’t really stop me either). But I also know a lot of hunting is unfair to the animals too.

4659

I made the mistake once of watching a short clip on industrialized meat, ah, harvesting. Didn’t eat any meat for a while after that, it’s horrifying.

I do sometimes wonder what a world would be like if all living beings used chlorophyll for energy (IOW nothing ate anything else.)

4660

Real hunters go after bigger game.

4661

I spent a fair bit of time in poultry and beef plants early in my career (consulting). They’re awful. I didn’t stop eating meat, but I do look for products that are pasture raised/ grass fed etc. The lowest cost meat and eggs come from the worst conditions for the animals.

4662

Yeah, I wind up avoiding a lot of natural/organic grocery products because they’re looney-tunes against useful science like GMOs, but I always buy the most humanely treated meat I can find nowadays that I can afford it.

4663

We recently bought two fresh chickens for $5. They roasted and tasted fine. Feels weird though; I’m all about saving money here and there, but is that really a good deal?

4664

Yep, that’s my approach as well.

4665

I’m ready for the lab-grown meat revolution once they finally advance it enough to make it cost effective.

4666

That analogy is a non-starter because that child is of more value than that entire species of goats. Put another way: people are animals but animals are not people. (As an aside, your analogy works better if applied to the concepts of a “just war” and “collateral damage”.)

When it comes to wildlife management the goal must be the good of the population rather the good of an individual animal. Without the trophy hunter system there’s a chance the species would be extinct by now or be so reduced in number that recovery becomes difficult to impossible.

Instead the species is recovering with good and measurable progress. As a side benefit, the local population gets economic gain which reduces poverty and all the evils associated with poverty.

Additionally, in order for the goats to live their habitat must be preserved. Therefore many other species, in fact an entire ecosystem, will be preserved because the economic well being of the area is directly tied to preservation.

Your side of this debate would’ve resulted in an extinct species; therefore your side of the argument is the morally repugnant one.

4667

Citation needed.

Seriously, though, I get what the money from the trophy hunt brings and how that money can be used to protect a species. I’m just saying don’t expect me to praise or applaud the guy.

4668

Same. Often times I will be in the grocery store and pick up some produce and look and say “eww, organic” and put it back and move to the non-organic aisle. I ain’t paying more for the same bell pepper.

If only it were that simple. Deer and humans live in harmony (mostly, though Deer are the deadliest animal in the US) but humans and wolves can’t really live together as well. One species is more adapted to suburban/urban areas, while wolves would not be. They would kill a lot of pets, and livestock. Though, we could take a page from Africa’s predatory conservation strategy and get everyone an Anatolian Shephard.

And there are some smart farmers using LGD (livestock guardian dogs) with success.

And who doesn’t want to have awesome dogs around on the ranch?

4669

This is making an assumption that only through trophy hunting can a species be saved. Clearly that’s not case.

Relocate the humans. Problem solved.
(Joking. Sort of. ;)

4670

Next you’re going to try to tell me that Japanese whalers aren’t our only hope in protecting endangered whales.

4671

I want to see the business model for eco-tourism in a remote part of Pakistan ;)

I think we’ve been through this, right? There are several ways to preserve species and habitats. Philanthropy is great if someone steps forward. Eco-tourism is awesome, if it’s a place that can attract tourists. Regulations are wonderful, if they can and will be enforced.

And managed hunting will work in some cases. It’s not the only approach, or the best one in general, but it does have a niche.