Also, on Dagobah when Luke says “Master Yoda, you can’t die.”, Yoda replies with “Strong am I with The Force, but not that strong.” The implication is that it is possible for someone who is strong enough with The Force, and since Sith Lords are (pound for pound) stronger than Jedi, it seems likely that if anyone did have such a power over death, a Sith Lord would be the one.
Are Sith Lords more powerful than Jedi? Yoda and Dooku fight to a draw in Ep2. In Ep 3 Anakin, by now at the peak of his powers, defeats Dooku. Windu essentially defeats Palpatine, Obi-Wan defeats Anakin and the Palpatine/Yoda battle either ends in a draw or with a narrow victory for Palpatine, depending on your point of view. That’s not a good scorecard for Sith vs Jedi.
It does make sense that power over death would be a Dark Side power. The Jedi version, that your spirit can live on, seems like an appropriately “Good Side” equivalent of that.
I don’t think Palpatine was really in any danger from Windu. It looked like he set up the threat to himself in order to draw Anakin in on his side.
By pressuring Anakin to save a life, Sidious make his conversion a little more sudden. I have a feeling that if Anakin walked away, Sidious would jump up and rip Windu’s head off.
Ambiguous. Certainly Palpatine takes real damage in that fight because it scars him so badly. In any case, Anakin wasn’t going to walk away - he was going to either kill/arrest Palpatine or help him. Certainly Palpatine couldn’t have handled Anakin and Windu together.
In all 6 movies they indicate that hatred and other negative emotions make a Force User more powerful. In addition, there are clearly Force Powers which good Jedis choose not to use but which Siths consider part of their abilities. So while there were certainly some bad-asses on the Jedi side, I’m betting that the overall median for Siths is higher up.
Also I think it was said that Mace was the most powerful lightsaber user of the Jedi, ie their master fighter. It’s hard to know how powerful Dooku really was, besides his alliances. And Anakin is still clearly a “young Jedi” by the estimation of the Jedi council in not calling him a “Master Jedi”, so Obi-Wan beating him doesn’t seem terribly implausible (he wasn’t made more powerful just by turning to the dark side… he had to learn new powers and such).
[size=2]edit: spelling is hard[/size]
That’s not a good scorecard for Sith vs Jedi.
Some gamer you are. Clearly lightsaber combat is a different stat than survive death.
Exactly. Which is why I take issue with Matt Keil announcing that it’s impossible. It’s hard to have discussions with people who fling words around with no regard for what they mean.
However, you guys are probably right. But personally, I like it better if Palpatine is lying. It makes Anakin’s decision even more pathetic, and ultimately more tragic. There’s a sort of sad quality to it all if all the Darth Plagueis stuff was just a story to dupe a confused boy.
-Tom
She said: “Rosebud.”
I think the only truthful part of what Palpatine said was that Darth Plagueis was a Sith Master and that he was killed by his apprentice (Palpatine).
The fable aspect of it- Plagueis having control over life and death was, I think, a lie entirely to play on Anakin’s emotions.
Impossible!
-Tom
I take issue with this, because the “power over death” thing overlaps into the part of Palpatine’s speech when he’s kind of lost in reverie and remembering the death of his master, rather than trying to sell the story to Anakin.
Despite what Matt may say, its clearly debatable. I don’t believe Palpatine though because:
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There is no evidence of any of the Sith actually having that power in the films. If early rumors were true and Anakin had actually died in ROTS only to be brought back to life by Palpatine then I would believe the story.
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He was playing exactly to Anakin’s concerns then. Anakin’s driving worry was Padme’s life and that story was exactly what pushes Anakin over the edge into the dark side. Palpatine’s an opportunist and I think he lied through his teeth.
Palpatine gloating that he killed his master was a nice touch.
I’m guessing here, but maybe it’s almost standard Sith practice that eventually the apprentice kills the master? It obviously happened with Plagus/Sidious and it was looking set to happen with Sidious/Vader, too.
From what I understand that’s correct.
Vader does manage to survive a situation that would have probably killed Anakin or any other Jedi.
Outside of the numerous Extended Universe novels, comic books and whatnot that fanwank to the idea of the Emperor coming back from the dead, yeah, I don’t see the Sith being able to bring back someone from the dead, but Vader’s survival is potential evidence that what Anakin was told, that the Sith can hold back death is possible.
Revan/Malak from KOTOR works somewhat as well.
The movie clearly implies that Anakin’s unlikely survival is based on technology. You see droids working away at him and the whole point of his suit seems to be some life support dealie. Doesn’t Palpatine even tell the guards something like ‘Take him to the medical bay’?
If his survival was tied into some Dark Side of the Force magicks, I seriously doubt it would have been presented that way. Lucas would have show Force lighting or life sucking effects or witches standing around a cauldron or some such hokum.
-Tom
A lot of things are left open. I found it interesting that Lucas essentially leaves it open that other Jedi are still alive in the Galaxy.
Also, I doubt that Windu would have been able to block Sidious’ Force lightning without his lightsaber.
Also, after 20 some years in the Dark Side of the Force and Darth Vader, a Force user more powerful than most, the Chosen One, still can’t weild Force lightning? Impossible.
The movie clearly implies that Anakin’s unlikely survival is based on technology. You see droids working away at him and the whole point of his suit seems to be some life support dealie. Doesn’t Palpatine even tell the guards something like ‘Take him to the medical bay’?
If his survival was tied into some Dark Side of the Force magicks, I seriously doubt it would have been presented that way. Lucas would have show Force lighting or life sucking effects or witches standing around a cauldron or some such hokum.
-Tom[/quote]
I think the point is that he should have been dead by the time Palpatine found his body. A normal person would certainly be dead, and a lesser Jedi probably would be too.