Considering that the entire reason the film got bankrolled in the first place was in hope of stimulating DVD sales of the series, I don’t think it is reasonable to not count those dollars in the total for the movie.
Obviously, if you don’t take that into consideration, Serenity was a huge bomb.
I’ll leave the reason why the distinction is important in this particular case as an excercise for the reader. Some scrolling up may be involved.
o.k., I thought you were just ignorant, but you’re clearly a nutcase fanboy. Serenity (which, again, is a movie I liked enough to see in the theatre and buy on DVD) was a bomb using the very definitely you quoted.
I’ll spell it out for the less obstinate: according to box office mojo, Serenity made about $38 million in worldwide revenue, and had production costs (not including marketing) of $39 million.
The theatres typically retain about 50% of the box office revenue - so the actual revenue received by Serenity’s producers was around $19 million. Then you have to account for the marketing budget - which can easily be 50% of a movie’s production budget - but even to Serenity’s producers skimped on marketing (it certainly seems to have been overlooked by a lot of its potential audience, suggesting that), it would have cost at least $10 million in marketing.
So Serenity made $19 million for its producers, but cost at least $49 million: its production ($39 million) and marketing (at least $10 million) costs greatly exceeded the revenue revenue retained by the movie studio ($19 million at best).
Those are just the facts, no matter how much you’d prefer to bury your noggin in the sand.
If those were all the facts, I suppose you’d be right. Is that why that is the place you decided to stop thinking?
So you guys are arguing that Whedon shouldn’t direct The Avengers based on the box office success of Serenity.
How well did Peter Jackson and Sam Raimi do before they did The Lord of the Rings and Spider-Man, respectively? Studios take risk all the time with cast and crew (over $1 billion production budget for The Lord of the Rings trilogy with no big AAA stars).
Serenity’s box office success (or lack thereof) aside,
Whedon sucks as an action director. Serenity was his big chance to show good action scenes with a budget, and they all looked horrible, made me wince just watching any seen with wondergirl in it.
I don’t mind his dialog, but I wouldn’t want to see him direct an action packed superhero movie.
I tend to agree, Joss, I mean Josh. He’s great at giving us moments though. You know, those times in a show or film when you just think “Damn, that was bad ass!” I think that fits an Avengers movie. But if he can’t get the action scenes right, it will suck as a film because the Avengers is about an ensemble using teamwork to beat the hell out of some pretty powerful villains (or teams of less powerful baddies).
Are you now saying that sales of the television series on DVD should be credited against the movie’s expenses, or are you just being a little carefree with your pronouns?
That’s an interesting way of putting it. I am not sure how to go about finding out how much the final tab was for the production, marketing, and broadcast of Firefly was, but surely someone must know. And I surely have no inkling what the final result would be, I’d believe almost any result assuming it came from a reliable source.
Which just seems to support my point, frankly; it would seem to me that one of the definitions of “a bomb” is that there’s no doubt. Bombs go boom. One does not return to the scene of a bomb explosion and look around, wondering… “hey, was this a bomb?”
I think you’re stretching this metaphor a little further than the elastic band in it’s underwear can take.
How’s this. There is no doubt that by the common definition of a box office bomb, Serenity was a box office bomb.
Worldwide gross was LESS than the production budget. Box office bomb.
I say this, and I saw the movie twice in the theater (the second time led me to meet the woman who is now my wife), bought the movie on DVD, and then again on Blu-Ray.
Anyways, back on topic, I think Whedon would do fine job directing the Avengers. It would certainly increase my desire to watch it. He handles ensembles very well and has respect and understanding of the genre and material.
Doubtful- the series was owned by Fox and released under their home distribution unit. Serenity was made by Universal and released on DVD by them. Universal had no incentive to fund a movie so that Fox would make more money on series DVD sets.
In that case, it may very well be a bomb. It never occurred to me to wonder if the same company paying for Firefly paid for Serenity.
I retract my certitude.
You know, I’ll say this about that: I think Joss would do fine in a modern action film environment where he could get a good fight coordinator, and there was a strong hand on the action sequences that wasn’t his.
There’s been any number of “indie” directors who have made the jump to big screen action. I kinda think that that Favreau himself was a guy who realized that going with the flow was going to get him where he wanted to go.
There’s clearly a process in place for making that happen and making it work. If he can work in that system there’s no reason a Joss directed Avengers wouldn’t be fantastic…
Ok?
Yeah, but the Avengers don’t have “Porpoise Song” going for 'em.
Oh! Shit! Thanks Dan, you explained everything.
Serenity wasn’t a bomb, it was a flop. I am sure we all agree here.
I can think of worse action directors doing superhero/comic movies. Christopher Nolan comes to mind.
Shit, is alexlitel cloning himself now, going back in time, and registering alts?
I can’t remember Vaughn directing anything, mostly. That’s all I’ve got. I’m assuming that movie executives know about as much about comics as I do about the relative movie business success of dudes who have written in the vicinity of comics, so I would think that fact would be a big red stop sign. I do like him much better as a writer, and I’d prefer that the script for the film (I think that somebody has the rights, but I don’t know of any ongoing project at this point) come from him, but I just feel like Whedon would be the name that dudes would recognize.
Of course, that implies that I think that either Frank Miller or Kevin Smith will direct the inevitable next reboot of the Daredevil franchise, which makes me shudder a little on the inside, so I kind of hope I’m wrong.
The last I heard - and it has been a while, so this could all be in my imagination - they’re going with the ORIGINAL original lineup. Ant-Man, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America. This, however, was back when there was an Ant-Man movie directed by Edgar Wright that was supposed to happen before Avengers. What I’ve heard on podcasts is a lot of people bloviating about how the original Avengers story was at least three of those guys (Iron Man, Thor, Captain America) hooking up to fight The Hulk until they found out that The Hulk was being mind controlled by…somebody (my Golden Age knowledge is lacking) and added him to the team. Which makes me wonder what they plan to do with The Leader from The Incredible Hulk, but whatever. I would actually love to see an Iron Fist movie - or, even better, a Heroes for Hire movie that introduces Luke Cage - but the character has no name recognition in the mainstream. Hawkeye, however, is more believable. If I were Marvel, I would want to beat Warner to the punch on the whole Green Arrow thing by getting my pretty much entirely normal archer guy out first.
Whedon can’t direct Avengers, for the same reason that a trout cannot fly a jet plane. I’m trying to envision how the meeting with the Marvel reps would go.
Joss: Okay, we’re about ready to get the first round of shooting started…
Rep: Actually, Joss… we’re a little concerned about a few scenes.
Joss: I don’t see how, but okay…
Rep: Well, you’re aware that this is a movie with Captain America, Thor, Iron Man… all top-tier Marvel properties with their own successful movies.
Joss: I think I heard that, yeah.
Rep: We’re concerned at the fact that… well… the Scarlet Witch has 75% of the dialogue and saves the day after…
Rep 2: After Thor gets killed by… being hit by a city bus with failing brakes? Look, Joss…
Joss: Okay, first off - I don’t see why you guys are scared of strong female characters. Second - there’s something you suits might not be aware of; it’s called drama. Anyone can die!
Rep: Not the God of Thunder, no. So we’re going to need to make some edits there…
Joss: Oh my god, this is a conspiracy just like Alien:Resurrection was! You’re trying to butcher my vision!
Rep 2: The vision that has the Scarlet Witch proclaiming, and I quote: “Behold my power of chaos-y chaos stuff!”
Joss: Obviously someone in this room isn’t in touch with the youth demographic.
Rep: Obviously someone in this room isn’t in touch with reality.