I give up. I asked you to explain and what you’ve provided above explains nothing. Fred Thompson? Penguins? Bush references?
I can only assume you are applying some previous interpretation of Tom’s statements to this situation, statements I have no knowledge of. I’m taking his statements in this thread at face value and as far as I’m concerned you have yet to provide an example of what he’s said having anything to do with the 14th amendment.
Yes
Just showing up doesn’t show that education has led to better voting practices…just MORE voting practices.
Democracy is stupid!
Edit: I’m gonig to revise the snark here and point out that educated voter turnout is a good thing. We’re not talking Tammany hall here. These are motivated voters.
Free Education
We already have free education or mostly free education available. Join the Army or National Guard, serve your term, and get college money. It is what I did.
Don’t want to serve? Thank the people who put their lives on the line for you, be quiet, and pay. Once you get a good job then pay off your loan(or your parents) and live a good and safe life in a great country.
kthxbye.
QFT
All I was saying was that we have a very long border with a 3rd-world country, and that greatly complicates the issue of universal healthcare when the U.S. has birthright citizenship. I never said or implied that birthright citizenship was bad, nor do I even feel one way or the other about illegal immigration. I feel the same way about that as I do about the Sun: It’s there, it’s huge, it affects everything around us, it’s not going to go away anytime soon, it’s a permanent part of our lives, and we’d better figure out how to handle it before we get burned.
Was it really that inscrutable?
Mr. McNamara’s argument is that universal healthcare is impossible because of the influx of Mexicans and birthright citizenship. Birthright citizenship is Amendment 14, Section 1. Ergo, the United States is precluded from universal healthcare by the 14th Amendment.
If you’re so Randian that universal healthcare isn’t something you’d want even if it were totally feasible, proceed directly to hell. Assuming Mr. McNamara’s not in that group, the 14th Amendment is a hindrance preventing the US from achieving a desirable outcome that every other first world country managed decades ago.
To me that certainly sounds like he’s proposing the repeal fo the 14th Amendment.
The Dubya Doctrine is shredding the Constitution whenever it gets in your way.
Penguins are a reference to my earlier post where I substituted them for Mexicans. Which in turn was a reference to a children’s book, Too Many Penguins.
Fred Thompson is that guy who used to be on L&O with the trophy wife that looks like a pudgy former stripper. He also recently concluded a disastrous run for President, and looks like a caricature of a basset hound. His favorite color is red.
I never said anything about “Mexicans.” The border is a sieve for all of Central America. Most of them ride north in and on trains. When they pass villages, the locals toss food and water at them. It’s ridiculously dangerous, and they can get deported back to their home country at any point on the journey. I don’t know why you’re getting so hot and bothered about the 14th Amendment, or why you’re implying that I’m some kind of right-wing racist. I’m really not interested in making enemies, or in being a punching bag. You seem really willing to get in somebody’s face about this, but I am not going to be that guy, and you are going to have to deal with that.
Edit: Besides, I lived with two gay roommates in San Francisco – on Castro Street – so I’m pretty sure I’m not a shadow agent for the New World Order.
Yes
You are jumping to all kinds of conclusions with this illogical progression.
Tom’s statement seems pretty clearly to me aimed at pointing out that a consequence of universal healthcare in the US would be that immigrants would cross the border and have children, thus taking advantage of the birthright citizenship clause. I don’t happen to agree with him, as my other comments in this thread show, but it is a valid point to bring up. At no point did he suggest that the 14th amendment would stop universal healthcare and at no point did he suggest that the 14th amendment would have to be repealed.
This is one of the strangest “leaps of logic” I’ve ever seen, even on the internet.
Democracy may actually be stupid. But that wasn’t my point. If they are motivated voters aware of issues, that’s fine. I was only pointing out that stats indicating turnout do not prove anything. I’m sure you know that, though. It just seemed odd because of the link chosen. And your Tammany Hall example proves that your first answer was incorrect.
If other nations can achieve it, why can’t we?
Don’t want to serve? Thank the people who put their lives on the line for you, be quiet, and pay. Once you get a good job then pay off your loan(or your parents) and live a good and safe life in a great country.
While I respect members of the armed forces for their public service (several of my family members have served), this just reminds me why I don’t want to live in a police state.
Which would you rather have: Free Education or Universal Healthcare?
I love that someone considers it ‘free’ education. I would rather be free to choose to pay for education (and also healthcare).
Which is why I avoided saying it until pressed. But let’s be honest, they’re the majority of illegals and the conversation about illegal immigration always involves a ridiculous little dance where both sides try not to be the first to say the secret word.
I don’t know why you’re getting so hot and bothered about the 14th Amendment, or why you’re implying that I’m some kind of right-wing racist.
If I thought you were racist, I would have said so in my first post. But as stated previously, I think the argument that constitutional reforms are necessary to fix illegal immigration takes you down a really dark road. Personally, I think coherent policies are what’s needed, and we should probably try that first.
I’m really not interested in making enemies, or in being a punching bag. You seem really willing to get in somebody’s face about this, but I am not going to be that guy, and you are going to have to deal with that.
I didn’t intentionally ignore your previous post or anything. Beyond that, whatever, it’s the internet, we don’t really know each other, no reason to mince words.
Speaking of which…
Yes he did, you imbecile, that was his entire first post. You know, the one you read and re-read and desperately furrowed your brow over.
I keep ratcheting down the bar for you, and every time I worry I’m being condescending. And yet you manage to limbo under.
PS. HUR HUR LERN TO USE LOGICS HUR.
I fully expect you to mandate to your wife that you send your kid to private school between the ages of 5 and 18.
Here’s his entire first post:
See anything about the 14th Amendment in there? Nope. You are just interpreting it (incorrectly) that way. You are the one who has interpreted this to have something to do with the 14th Amendment, when Tom himself has denied that was ever his intent.
…but how? As pointed out, it’s not like Mexico is going to up and move here for an extra two years of lifespan for their kids.
We have achieved it. Join the service.
Don’t hide behind dramatic words like ‘police state’ when ‘I don’t want to put my ass on the line’ or ‘I want something for nothing’ is what you mean.
[quote=“Sarkus,post:54,topic:42836”]
See anything about the 14th Amendment in there? Nope. You are just interpreting it (incorrectly) that way.[/QUOTE]
It’s the very first line, so it’s not like you can claim you just skimmed and it escaped your notice. Maybe for an encore you can argue the right to bear arms is entirely separate from the Second Amendment.
LIGHTNING ROUND
Again, where does Tom say anything about denying birthright citizenship?
Tom’s the one who wrote the passage and he has clearly stated that your interpretation of his statement is wrong. It’s pretty clear that you feel use of the term “birthright citizenship” raises red flags but all I can say is that nothing’s been said here to support the conclusion you are drawing from the use of that term, IMHO.
Let’s just leave it at that.
I get free health care in the UK, and I don’t have to run the risk of being blown apart by insurgents in order to qualify. Nor is it ‘something for nothing’. Everyone in the UK who pays tax helped pay for my ‘free’ health care.
If the US is the worlds biggest economy, its kinda silly that you guys can’t afford to give people health care, unless they are prepared to sign up to kill foreigners.
Actually we were talking about education.
I am in favor of some type of nationalized health care plan for a variety of reasons. Perhaps some type of nationalized minimal coverage for everybody over 18-65 with suplemental health care being provided for by employers or available for purchase. Kids and S.Citizens get full coverage.
Yes, gasp, a two tiered system.
Obese people and smokers should have to pay a significant premium. People under 30 who are less at risk, and less able to pay, should pay less.