Catch-all Europe isn't that great thread

Sorry, typo.

Which is part of the issue. That’s why it’s hard to dislodge reactions against immigration in Europe (it’s definitely not just the UK, as you say) from racism, when people conflate foreign citizens with naturalized citizens of different origin.

But it is a cool study. I do like the EU barometers. They are pretty good tools and they seem to be very reactive on which subjects to tackle. The main takeaway of this one is that perception of immigration improves the more immigration you have, and that the worst offending countries overall are those with negligible levels.

It does not quite explain the far right xenophobic movements (which are pretty prominent in countries where the public perception tends positive 0_o), except maybe that all the anti immigration vote is being condensed in just a single party per country.

Yeah, the most striking thing about that chart to me is Hungary. It’s pretty depressing that you can have a successful, openly racist immigrant-bashing quasi-fascist party in a country that only thinks it has relatively low immigration (and of course actually has almost no immigration).



auf Deutsch

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Wie-tief-steckt-die-AfD-im-Spendensumpf-article20578172.html

Color me (un)surprised.

We saw this in the UK and I suspect the same is true all around the EU.

I hope we are clever enough to fall on this with all the strength necessary to stop it soon.

Did the Soviet Union ever try this sort of thing? Or maybe it’s the Internet that allows for it, and pre-Internet they’d have to spend far more than this to be able to break a Democracy…

Interesting question. I’d say ‘yes’, and this is a walk down memory lane.

This incident isn’t going to help the political situation around the syrian refugees in Germany… This is my hometown and I was at the train station when it was evacuated.

The man had sparked major panic around noon on Monday when he stormed a McDonald’s restaurant inside Cologne’s central railway station armed with a petrol container, a replica pistol and gas canisters with metal balls taped to them, police said.

The dishevelled-looking man with long grey hair poured the petrol onto the floor and set it alight, injuring a 14-year-old girl with burn wounds and sparking the alarm that led authorities to quickly evacuate the busy station and stop all trains.

As smoke and screams filled the room and the sprinkler system activated, he ran into a nearby pharmacy and took a female employee hostage, sparking an hours-long drama and tense negotiations with police.

The perpetrator doesn’t seem to have any links to terror organisations, but is claming he does. For now the authorities reckon he’s is “just a confused old man”. Guess in time we’ll know more. Only 2 years ago immigrant men hanging out around the cologne cathedral & train station were accused of over 500 sexual assaults on new years eve. So the city seems to have a problem with the issue of integration…

I haven’t lived in Germany for years. Are CDU and SPD really getting hit hard due to their lack of facing the mood of the general public regarding these issues?

Well, the parties are definitely losing their base. Looking at the recent election in Bavaria (conservative state around Munich), the CSU (basically a regional variant of the CDU), lost their majority rule for the first time in 60 years.

Angela Merkel has admitted her government shares responsibility for Sunday’s disastrous regional election result in Bavaria, blaming it partly on an erosion of confidence in politics on a national level.

“A lot of trust has been lost,” the German chancellor said at a business conference on Monday, a day after her Bavarian allies in the Christian Social Union (CSU) were handed their worst result since 1954 in the prosperous southern state.

And a large part of that loss is around the issue of migration and the growing support of parties like the AFD (right wing nuts). Similary the SPD is losing its traditional support by seemingly neglecting its social values and representation of the “working class”, by going along with the CDU in a large coalition.

Thanks, I am pretty familiar with Germany. :) I lived in the Rhineland and Munich for a time.

My question is more, is the CDU( CSU)/SPD decline purely regional, or s it happening nationally?

Well, my impression is that the population is getting more and more restless with the government and the CDU/SPD coalition and both parties have lost lots of ground. In last years election the CDU dropped from 40 to 32% and SPD dropped from 25 to 20%. The regional elections since then have all followed suit and their support is vanishing. There are lots of issues obviously, but migration is a core concern.

As many of the CSU votes went to the AfD (presumably because the CDU wasn’t willing to go along with Seehofer’s ideas) as went to the Greens (presumably because they didn’t like Seehofer’s ideas). Nearly as many went to the Freie Waehler, who are probably somewhere between Merkel and Seehofer on immigration.

Yeah, for all the AfD freakout talk, I am curious how much support they’d have if there was a “Right of CDU on migration” option out there other than them.

There was also a recent, massive, pro immigration march. This is unusual. Probably explains the rising of the Greens.

I think it’s more complex than “most Germans want a harsher stand on immigration” and probably closer to the current US divide on the issue.

Ultimately, in Europe we need to decide whether forcing every couple to have 4 kids or embrace pretty significant immigration anyway (or lose our welfare state and quality of living, which I assume nobody wants).

This is an interesting chart.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/36625/1809_irregular-arrivals-to-the-eu.jpg

It’s not that unusual. And if you base political predictions on marchers, activists and SM attitudes, you’ll usually over-count the Left by 2x or 3x. :)

Grandma steps down as party leader.

I pray that the Germans don’t now elect some fascist as seems to be what folks are doing these days.

Well, the CDU will attempt some abortive coalitions that don’t work as it and SPD keep tanking. Everyone will stay away from the AfD…there will be turnover and uncertainty until someone finally aligns with them thinking they can control them and…

Waittaminnit?!

The Greens have had more votes than the far right in the two latest elections (which is more surprising, since nobody was talking about a rise of the Greens). Pro far right retrorockets by the main center right party has lost them votes.

I think it’ll be fine, although they might have to do without a majority, and that’s messy.