Lizard, I’d never argue that you’re a vigilante here, so don’t get defensive about that one. I also haven’t come down on Dick as being responsible for Hartman’s death.
All I’m saying is that anyone who puts drugs in front of a recovering drug addict is a lowly form of scum. Maybe my hyperbole about selling drugs to kids was a bit too much, so I’ll tone it down and say “selling drugs to 15 year olds.”
I’m sorry, you just happened to be the most recent poster, and I should have been more clear. I just found the layout of this argument a bit ironic, but it wasn’t you that prompted that feeling.
All I’m saying is that anyone who puts drugs in front of a recovering drug addict is a lowly form of scum. Maybe my hyperbole about selling drugs to kids was a bit too much, so I’ll tone it down and say “selling drugs to 15 year olds.”
Once again, I think that’s a loaded analogy that isn’t really accurate. I don’t know enough about that woman/murderer to make the judgment that she had the mind of a child, but I will not accept that as the default position, nor will I shift the consequences of her actions to someone else similarly afflicted simply because of her addiction. If anything, like I said, it rests more on the sober people around her. Like Jon Lovitz, if he in fact was as close to the situation as he claims. And it’s still a bullshit move to physically beat up the very essence of the wimp.
Granted, you shouldn’t beat other people up. That said, if you’re gonna run around goading people about extremely sensitive issues (like Andy Dick), I dunno, you might want to lift weights or something, especially if you hang out at bars.
As an aside, does anyone have a more appropriate name than Andy Dick?
Randy Johnson? Judging from the size of the guy, he probably does earn the nickname “Big Unit”. Randy Johnson has to be the name of a porn star too. It’s too good.
I just can’t imagine Jon Lovitz beating up anyone. He managed to find the one man in a million he could put a beatdown on.
And while beating up people is bad, as long as Andy Dick didn’t die from it, well, ha ha ha ha.
What the christ? I always thought andy dick was a sucky comic but a lowlife?
I mean one of the first thing an alcoholic learns is to stay out of bars. Shouldn’t ex coke addicts stay away from hollywood parties with comics? Chances are if you’re hanging out at a bunch of parties where people are passing around cocaine you’re going to end up falling off the wagon.
Yeah dammit how come Randy Johnson gets to have TWO porn names. Most of us are lucky if we get one.
I don’t believe Andy Dick caused Phil Hartmanns death. And I don’t even think Jon Lovitz does either. But he sure didn’t help the situation any.
And wanting to blame somebody is natural, as you say, so Andy should have STFU instead of goading Lovitz.
This wasn’t vigilatism, it’s not like Lovitz chased Dick down he just reacted to one provocation too many. Also it’s not like Lovitz is butch or anything, so the notion that he’s the 200 pound gorilla picking on a weakling is ridiculous - Andy being a coke addict probably makes him more dangerous than lovable chubby Lovitz.
Really? Because
"I told Andy, ‘I wouldn’t be here now if you hadn’t given Brynn that cocaine.’ "
sure sounds like pointing fingers, and it also sounds like they both said fucked up things to each other for a while before this came to a head.
But, yeah, I totally agree that physically weak people should be discouraged from defending themselves in kind or, in fact, saying anything to offend others. I mean, what do they expect? That grownups aren’t going to smash their heads into bars for saying whatever’s on their mind? Psh. That goes double for women, right, since for the most part they’re not that great at bar fights. I personally can’t wait to see Sarah Silverman pwned.
This wasn’t vigilatism, it’s not like Lovitz chased Dick down he just reacted to one provocation too many.
Oh, so now it’s self defense, right? Because kicking anyone’s ass is vigilantism unless it’s that, and that goes doubly if the other person is built like a preadolescent girl and the aggressor is not.
Also it’s not like Lovitz is butch or anything, so the notion that he’s the 200 pound gorilla picking on a weakling is ridiculous - Andy being a coke addict probably makes him more dangerous than lovable chubby Lovitz.
Clearly it doesn’t, since only one side got their face smashed against the bar. Have you heard anyone even say that he was able to defend himself?
If you’re a puny weakling, yeah, you might be well advised to not get overly lippy with someone who’s a) bigger than you and b) been drinking. But, hey, don’t listen to me – stand your ground, even if he can grind your face into mush!
That’s wonderful advice. I hope little people everywhere, especially those who are genetically bound to that role, take it to heart. Just think how many battered women could save themselves the hassle!
Also, isn’t it just perfect how the internet, by the very act of removing the ass kicking as a control mechanism in discussions, frees up people to promote and enjoy the ass kicking as such?
They might both have talked shit, but Andy was the one handing out drugs, so my sympathies are lesser.
No, it’s an understandable but wrong response to provocation. You still have trouble grasping simple distinctions, I see.
Clearly it doesn’t, since only one side got their face smashed against the bar. Have you heard anyone even say that he was able to defend himself?
Most barfights only have one winner. I’m sure if Andy had the jump on Lovitz it could have gone the other way. These things are usually over fast and being the attacker often means winning.
Andy might be a small dick… but not really that small compared to Ultimate Fighter Lovitz!
Wow, talk about totally not understanding what I’m saying.
If someone who could physically dominate you is getting in your face, you’re best off trying to defuse the situation and getting clear of the whole scene; are you saying no, you should go ahead and get lippy even though you’ll likely get your ass whipped?
Seriously, your responses are confusing me. The sarcasm and veiled hostility isn’t helping you communicate your meaning.
Not entirely sure how I’m promoting asskickings here. Explain, please, since I’m apparently thick in the head?
Ah, I see. Well, so long as your sympathies are in the right place. I take it then you’re not on the addiction makes victims out of people bandwagon, since, you know, Dick is a junkie.
To reinforce what Euri said: when you’re the person who’s making the “clean” lifestyle choice, it’s your responsibility and that of the people who claim to care about you to keep you out of situations that may cause you to compromise that. There are certainly unavoidable clashes between your past and your present choices that are going to happen, but inviting druggies to your drugged up parties isn’t one of those. That’s easy to fix.
No, it’s an understandable but wrong response to provocation. You still have trouble grasping simple distinctions, I see.
I’m pleased to see that you still blame me when you don’t express yourself fully. Now that we have the niceties aside, I’m well aware of the differences between Charles Bronson in Death Wish and Jon Lovitz in “I beat up Andy Dick”. The similarities in what is supposed to inspire sympathy for both those characters is what I found entertaining, especially when multiplied by who is saying what here.
Most barfights only have one winner. I’m sure if Andy had the jump on Lovitz it could have gone the other way. These things are usually over fast and being the attacker often means winning.
Ambushing others in a bar: the one true path for men of honor. I fail to see how this is in any way a defense of Lovitz’s conduct.
It’s not that I don’t understand why Lovitz did what he did. It’s that I don’t get why he’s awesome as a result, and why guilt projection or whatever the hell is going on for him is a rationale for his actions.
Andy might be a small dick… but not really that small compared to Ultimate Fighter Lovitz!
I’m just quoting that for posterity.
It depends on the situation. But most of the time, the actual ass kicking is nowhere near as serious as the psychological damage from getting run over and not standing up for yourself. More importantly, one of the features of being an adult is that you should be able to “get lippy” with whoever you want, especially when you are talking about people in your social circle, and the worst response you get is ostracism or social pressure.
Especially when “getting lippy” is a euphemism used by assholes to justify pounding on those weaker than them since it was invented.
Especially when we are talking about a private dispute between two men where clearly Dick does not have the monopoly on saying fucked up things, which only became notable because Lovitz is trying to rationalize beating someone up.
Seriously, your responses are confusing me. The sarcasm and veiled hostility isn’t helping you communicate your meaning.
It’s not veiled. I thought I was pretty clear who I was hostile to: Jon Lovitz, in this instance. It’s also not going anywhere, since I don’t appreciate being forced into Andy Dick’s corner.
Not entirely sure how I’m promoting asskickings here. Explain, please, since I’m apparently thick in the head?
Don’t beat yourself up! Let the violence stop here.
I realize it’s somewhat controversial, but I’ve always agreed with the notion that the detachment that modern media provides from violence enables it to become far more pornographic in that regard. I don’t regard the sum of that as an objectively bad thing, but I do find it interesting. I have a hard time believing that most people would be defending some wimp getting the shit kicked out of him “savagely” had they been there to see it, or if they had to say it in person, out loud, to other people with some concern over social pressures. But, yeah, I think defending Lovitz’s behavior is, in the end, an apologia on behalf of ass kickings generally. The fact that it’s the prevailing viewpoint on a forum filled with video game guys, comic guys, and beret-wearing movie guys among the many stereotypical punching bags just makes it all the more obvious that the internet provides a somewhat surreal separation from the subject matter.
I’ll requote this, because this is where i should have quit this thread.
Lets forget page two ever happened and make fun of Andy Dick while LK ponders the sociological issues behind it all.
EDIT: not going to bait you. I’m curious to see how far you carry this logic in the future.
Man, what got me cheering over this event wasn’t due to the fact that Andy gave Phil’s former-addict wife cocaine, it was the absolutely despicable behavior Mr. Dick exhibited after that occurrence. His little asshole-comedy shtick he did to his colleagues was seriously asking for it.
However, I try to view the positives that could arise from this incident. Lovitz, by expressing he’s not “proud of it”, does seem to have some regret of his outburst of violence; may he reflect upon his actions and try to work at better controlling his already pretty damn well controlled temper. Dick could take the face-smashing as a wake up call, to realize that, for such an violent attack to happen on him just due to his comments, maybe he’s indeed being quite an asshole - a position one would definitely consider revising.
Still, a handshake for Mr. Lovitz is due, because that was awesome.
I missed the post where you mentioned that Dick was an invited guest at the 1997 Christmas party. Given the long list of rude and insensitive behavior on Dick’s part, isn’t it just as possible that he showed up uninvited?
Even if he was invited (and it’s likely he was, working with Hartman on News Radio at the time), isn’t reasonable to think that having worked with each other for a few years that Hartman expected Dick to behave reasonably? One might think that he’d know Hartman’s wife had been clean for several years, and had been around her previously without pulling out a vial and rolling up bills. I mean, it’s possible that this was the first time Dick had met Brynn, but it seems unlikely after 2 years working on the same sitcom together.
For that matter, what makes a party “drugged up”? Was there some indication that drugs were rampant at the party that I missed, or are you just puffing stuff up? How about if we say that Dick gave the coke to Brynn because he thought it’d be a funny joke to play on Phil?
I don’t blame Dick for Hartman being killed (which I think I said earlier). I don’t call Brynn a victim for taking coke from Dick. I blame Dick for being a douchebag. I don’t much mind when douchebags get comeuppance.
If I saw someone walk up to a table at a resturaunt, down the drinks of people dining there, and then say “I put the <name of friend who died> hex on you, you’re going to die next.” I’d smile if he got punched out.
Why are you pro wife-beating?
The article doesn’t have even a “no comment” from Dick, so we may not have heard the full story.