Not that this belongs in the thread, but an interesting blog post and discussion on the meaning of conservatism which I think contravenes the “conservatives are really nice people” thesis.
Have the Ideological Labels of the Long 19th Century Outlived their Usefulness?
I agree with the underlying argument here. The triumph of Trumpism marks the full takeover of the GOP by the radical right. One can trace this back, for example, to 1994 and the Gingrich “revolution” or further back to the 1960s and 1970s. But the immediate causes of the transformation, it seems to me, involve the confluence of a number of factors over the period from 2006-2012. The implosion of the Bush Administration and the debacle of two sequential “wave” elections—in 2006 and 2008—left the Republican brand in tatters and the party rudderless. The decision by the GOP congressional leadership, in 2009, to adopt a scorched-earth strategy in order to regain power had lasting effects. In essence, they decided to “ride the tiger” in the hope that they could keep control over it. Of course, the defeat of Mitt Romney in 2012 dashed the possibility of a conservative restoration. Finally, longer-term contextual developments involving the rise of a party-independent right-wing media and the end of the Cold War played an important role.
However, I think the issue of “traditional American values” is much more complex. Trumpism definitely strikes me as contrary to the deep philosophical underpinnings of the American experiment, let alone the positive evolutions of that experiment in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War, during the Great Depression and the Second World War, and through the victories of the Civil Rights movement. But my sense is that it taps into a stream of American political discourse that was quite powerful in conservative circles in the 1950s, and which was extremely potent before the 1940s. Yes, we tend to look back at Pearl Harbor, and the subsequent allied victory against Germany and Japan, as discrediting the last movement to proclaim “America First.” But this was always something of a retcon, and it seems increasingly problematic after Trump won with the same slogan.
Indeed, we can declare the potent stew of racial resentment that surrounded Trump’s campaign and permeates his administration contrary to “American values.” As a normative argument, that’s perfectly fine. I agree. But it falls apart as an empirical claim. Racism, and racial politics, are very much part of the tapestry of traditional American values. Explicitly race-centered authoritarianism not only lasted in this country into the 1960s, but it persists in many enclaves. In many states—now backed by the Department of Justice—attempts to restore “softer” versions of it constitute the major vector of democratic backsliding.
Okay, I’m not sure what we’re arguing over. Your point is that a racist is a racist? Yes, who wouldn’t agree with that? But that all Republican voters are racist? Ehh, I don’t think so. (I bolded that so you could see what I was defending.)
If we’re discussing something different here, let me know. I was originally responding to @SlainteMhath’s statement but it seemed as though we (the thread) were just wanting to say that all Republicans are racist. And I do not believe that. Not for a second.
I never said All Republican Voters. What I am actually arguing is behind this “nice guy” is this secret racist piece that is too often overshadowed. And the nice guy who works hard and supports his family but thinks brown people are taking his job and ruining his neighborhood… that’s NOT a nice guy. That’s a racist, and it’s more common in the GOP then they want to admit.
My apologies. I get lost in these threads sometimes.
Dude I know you don’t really believe that, or I’d scold you by cutting off your access to the Indian food market.
Nesrie, I think the more surprising statistic would be that there are racists in BOTH parties. Perhaps not of equal percentage, but it’s there. And a lot of that job loss / neighborhood going south fear mongering is just that. And we should be uniting against that fear mongering. The title of this thread references a big part of that.
Oh sure, there are plenty of racists in all these parties but the parading a nice working class white guy in front of a camera or on an article and then to find out this guy rants and raves about brown people in social media and makes not even subtle racists remarks his neighbors, family and friends overlook… a bit more of a GOP spiel.
Let me introduce you to… Bundy, or Joe the plumber or… I am sure I can find more.
I mean, you keep voting for the party that has Good Ol Boy Racism as a front-and-center platform plank (or 10) year after year just cuz they’re also gonna Save Yer Guns, at the end of the day, for the brown guy getting beaten to death by militarized cops down the street, the hairs-breadth fine line between Actual Active Racist and Passive Supporter of Racists may not seem to matter much.
20 years ago, I could almost see toeing the party line and claiming that Republicanism wasn’t a hollowed out shell of a party with a thousand Neohitler eggs incubating within, but after they put up the Big Orange Alt-Righter, I really can’t fathom a coherent defense for continuing to support them in any venue.
Yeah, but again, being afraid (much less for really fucking dumb reasons) doesn’t justify actively working to make life substantially and measurably worse for virtually everyone in the country who isn’t White, Christian, Male, and Rich.
Like hey, I get it. Some people are exactly dumb enough to go along with whatever the last message that was shouted at their faces and are more or less helpless and unable to direct their own lives. I might privately question whether they make much of a voting stock for a democracy, but whatever.
Presumably, they’re not a substantial portion of the electorate. If they are, we’re probably turbo-fucked until progressives learn to lie, cheat, and steal their way to elections like their conservative peers mastered so long ago.
But if humanity in general and Americans in particular are just slightly more capable of personal decisionmaking than I’m willing to give them credit for, then I think it’s necessary to assign a high degree of moral culpability for their actions.
Not every Republican is Racist. But every Republican capable of adding two and two and getting four is absolutely guilty of supporting the Party of Racism, and morally, I just don’t see the light coming through between the two.
I hear ya. I also understand @Nesrie 's comments. Amazingly, Trump was elected (looking past the fact that it appears illegitimate.) So figure we need some of those independents who swung his way to vote for change in 2020. Based on his current track record, that seems like a sure thing, but it’s not a guarantee, nor is it a guarantee which party takes the WH if Trump is out.
So let’s appeal to that voting block. What are their true voting issue needs? Better healthcare? More jobs? Immigration reform? Those were all cornerstones of Hillary’s campaign … and she lost. We 100% need a better voice than her next go-round. A different candidate that has weight and drive that will garner heavy support. I’m at a loss as to who that would be, but we need to quit putting faith in Hillary as that person.
All she needed to do was campaign in swing states instead of fucking Arizona or Texas or wherever actually she went to. She was trying to run up the score. We all know what happened to the Atlanta Falcons when they tried that.
I feel like Hillary’s biggest problem was simply, Hillary. I can’t tell you how many people mentioned they didn’t vote for her because they just simply don’t like her. I mean, it’s a shitty reason to move your vote to Trump, but I’m assuming their hatred was probably fed by Fox news et al.
I think this pretty well sums up the point @Nesrie and you are trying to make, and I can definitely agree that you are not wrong in this assertion.
However, you also have to understand that the people in question, the non-racist Conservative Republicans who nevertheless supported a party that was bolstered by an influx of actual racists, don’t see it that way AT ALL. From their standpoint, the racists infiltrated their party and are the outsiders, and they believe there are a whole lot more Conservative Republicans like themselves (non-racist, average folks) than there are of these new “Alt-right people”, and that the system will self-correct itself accordingly.
Imagine for a moment if the roles were reversed. What if the Democratic party was suddenly taken over by a huge influx of PETA/Anti-Vax/true-socialist types, let’s call them the Alt-Left, who espoused a complete hatred of the system in general and wanted to deconstruct the Federal Government and the military. Let’s say this Alt-Left faction gained enough momentum that they got their chosen candidate, Jenny McCarthy into the Democratic Primaries for 2020, and she started winning some states. In this hypothetical situation, would you, as a card carrying Democrat, abandon your party and vote Republican (Trump?) in 2020? Or would you recognize that these people are crazy as fuck, and hope that the overwhelming numbers of non-crazy as fuck Democrats offsets any damage they might do.
We’re actually seeing this now as Republicans that voted Trump are showing up in droves at town hall meetings venting hatred at their Republican congressional reps for supporting the awful American HealthCare Act. It’s the system autocorrecting. It’s not happening as quickly or as often as it should because Conservative Media has such a stranglehold on the Republican base, but the wheels are beginning to turn.
