Games journalism 2019 - Everything is streaming


#202

I’m not equipped to argue about specifics of America’s issues (my own countries’ aren’t even acknowledged, to add to the alienness of the subject to me), but it seems to me, after watching Lindsay Ellis analyzing a few Disney movies with regards to cultural appropriation, that it’s fair to fail at it if you at least try. Even if you don’t, it’s not necessarily careless to not notice what you’re doing.
But if you get called on it with this amount of documentation, you should probably try to make it better, because now you know.


#203

I think it is valid to point out other games have cribbed dances before. But Fortnite is directly monetizing them, as one of the few ways to actually make money in the game (emotes/dances/costumes). Which makes it a bit more obvious. It may be a similar type of copying, but the way it is implemented in the game is different. This is exacerbated by the fact that “fortnite dances” are an IRL craze WoW dances never were, to the point where artists are mad that their creation is being recognized by a generation as being from someone else. Like, the Milly Rock, as a kid where that dance is from, they will say Fortnite, and not the actual creator.

To me, it isn’t anything they legally can do about it, but it would be nice if these large multi-million dollar companies could at least give some credit where it is due at a minimum. Especially when a lot of the “fortnite dances” are from the african american artist community who has historically been culturally appropriated since Jazz.


#204

How much of a foot drag is one persons ‘invention’ over another? Do you measure in distance or ratio to the dancers body? Does a slow drag count or is that owned by another dancer? What if the foot drags are identical but hand movements are totally different? It’s not like a song or painting or story where there is a single ‘thing’.


#205

I have never made any such suggestion.

Let’s pretend for the sake of discussion that a series of dance steps is something that can be licensed.

If Epic was not paying the license fees for their emotes, they would be sued or at least have the liability of that occurring, I suspect you would not argue with that.

If we then take a MMO like WoW, and those dances were not licensed but used in the game, they would also be at legal risk. As it is a commercial use.


#206

Brooski: Posts waypoint article about how it is impossible to deal with the copyright aspects and legality of the situation, and how people are overlooking this as another example in a lengthy culture of appropriation of black artists.

This thread: Well actually, legally they have no standing.

image

Read that waypoint article it is excellent.


#207

I don’t think copyright being applicable to a quick dexterous move is something that anyone should wish for, it’s ridiculously overreaching as is.

How else could I have found out Rock was invented by an African-american Sister? That’s metal!
That other article about Blade Runner is probably awesome too, sorry MrTibbs, I’ll read it soon.


#208

Not entirely true. there was conversation about morality and ethics, but then the emphasis focused on copyright law, again, as if it is set in stone and doesn’t or cant’ change.

I read the Waypoitn article, but I didn’t need to to be aware of the American Bandstand situation or the fact that people have been stealing from certain groups AND trying to pretend they created something, passing it off as theirs. Epic is doing it themselves, trying to say it’s not “really” a copy.

To be clear, I do not think that short or limited movements should be copyrighted. I am pissed as hell these developers run around stealing ideas from other people in order to make billions off creativity they had nothing to do with and as a result may have put a lot of art related content in jeopardy so they could make a quick buck.


#209

Choreography theft has been around a long time. I personally know of a theater production that was shutdown because they actually had their dance captain spend a week watching a show and then redoing the moves.

Beyonce’s tours and videos are also often accused of it:


#210

Choreography can be copyrighted. Short routines are not. And you can sample in dance too, if you take too much then yeah you can be sued… just like in music.


#211

But what about black on black cultural appropriation?


#212

Yeah, I mean, if you could copyright a “move” you’d would basically destroy anyone’s ability to create dance choreography altogether. It’s like trying to copyright a chord or run in music. It’s just untenable.

And I do think that stance extends somewhat the morality here. Culture isn’t property. It isn’t even intellectual property. It’s viral, it spreads, it’s under no one person’s actual control.


#213

No. Some Kardashian doesn’t get to show up on Social Media and try to claim corn rows just because culture isn’t property. We’ve been over this before. Stealing from other people and then trying to whitewash culture is a known problem. It’s not a minor thing, especially when it’s called in appropriate, ghetto, and low class when one group does or uses it and suddenly widely popular and the best thing ever when another does it.It robs people of their existence.


#214

Yes, spoke to my best m8 a few days ago. His little boy was flossing at others who did it back whilst they were in the supermarket. He’s Italian.


#215

If Epic will happily steal a game idea lock, stock and barrel from one of it’s own customers, I don’t think they’re too hung up on stealing someone else’s dance moves.


#216

was this posted somewhere?


#217

Someone get @Paul_cze on the line, that story seems relevant to his interests.


#218

It’s in the Kingdom Come Deliverance thread.


#219

It’s a wee bit bigger than one game, but I suppose that makes sense. i don’t follow that game.


#220

Is not stealing of they don’t own it. Nobody owns the idea of battle royale, or the “dub” movement.


#221

Perhaps because copyright and trademark law and mechanisms have been developed over years to better serve the privledged class, corporate entities, and those that control capital.

There is a reason a black and white mouse drawing is better protected than a large amount of black cultural contributions.

Also why Epic can utilize copyright law to go after hackers but freely sell dance moves stolen from artists with little protection for the originating source.