Grognard Wargamer Thread!

This is where I would normally grouse about discussions being buried inside general purpose threads where no one will see them instead of inside their actual labeled threads where they’re more readily discovered by people other than those of you who can’t be arsed to use them.

I would recommend the newest Pushing Cardboard pod (really, I’d recommend all of them, it’s a good podcast) for fans of Jerry White’s games. He’s interviewed on the pod while at GMT West, really interesting.

Good to hear, I’ve heard a number of people mention how creative that mechanic is. Thanks!

True, but the nature of human discourse is rhizomatic, not linear, and things get squirrely fast!

I didn’t think I would live long enough to see it. Matrix Games is taking applications to beta test AI on the World in Flames game. I just signed up.

Holy crap, that’s like finding proof of alien life or something.

All American:The 82nd Airborne next?

Heh. You mean the sequel to what was it, 101st or something? That tactical game about the airborne drops at Normandy that was pretty decent but never got the promised sequel?

Yup, exactly that.

What could possibly go wrong, teaching AI to backstab, cheat, lie, and generally do what is necessary and common in that game?

Wargame Design Studio continuing to put in the work.

They are definitely doing some heavy lifting. I mean, the code base is positively ancient (like going back to the late 1990s), the guy who created that code base is, sadly, no longer with us, and many of the tools used to create stuff have had to be cobbled together from scratch. On top of that, the player base they inherited from the original HPS era is heavily skewed towards old-school grognards, many of whom still think Windows XP is a viable OS and have no clue why monitors aren’t 4:3 any more or why anyone would want resolutions greater than 1024x768. Ok, I’m exaggerating quite a bit–many of the players of these games (myself included) have modern PCs and all that, but there is still a coterie of old timers that has at least in the past sort of put a bit of a damper on anything radical in terms of changes.

With all that, WDS has still managed to continue to develop the whole array of Tiller games, with new titles featuring some excellent research, continued QOL improvements, and an incremental but effective approach to overhauling elements of the core game systems, to the extent it’s possible without writing a new engine.

Which, of course, should be in the cards, but whether that level of endeavor is possible remains doubtful. AFAIK, a lot of the work is still done by a handful of full-time people and a lot of part-time (but often really skilled) people.

Haven’t they hinted a new engine is in the works?

I believe there is some work going on, but I am pretty sure they don’t have any full-time programmers or designers doing nothing but that. Could be wrong though.

John Tiller, if I recall, had his doctorate in something like math, and while a skilled programmer was not by initial profession a game developer. I think he spent much of his professional life working on military stuff in places like Huntsville, Alabama. I think he got into making games from being a wargamer himself. The first things I remember from him were games from TalonSoft, Jim Rose’s wargame company back in the 1990s. Tiller’s first game with Scott Hamilton’s HPS Simulations was IIRC Smolensk '41, the first of the Panzer Campaigns series. That was in like 1998 or 1999 maybe. Since then that engine has gone through a billion little iterations under the tutelage of John and his successors, most recently and significantly by the good folks at WDS.

When I was looking for some work back in the early 2000s, John graciously hooked me up with Glenn Saunders (a big figure in the history of Panzer Campaigns over the years) to do some work with them. I did a scenario in Sicily '43, and some game writing for Korea '85 I think, among other stuff. That is about the extent of my even tangential game dev experience, though I also did some unit descriptions and marketing/PR materials for Stainless Steel Studios (the Empire Earth folks) at one point. Heh.

Sorry for the meandering. John Tiller’s games though have, for all their flaws, been a big part of my life since I first played Smolensk '41. I was lucky enough to attend a conference with John, and even had lunch with him when he flew up here on his private plane (a little puddle jumper, with his instructor, not some fancy Lear Jet!). I miss him; he was a great dude.

I really want to find a squad level wargame, turn based (no fast clicking for me, no RTS, etc.) I have waited for a modern version of SSI’s old Computer Ambush for decades (it’s amazing how much I loved that game, and how unplayable it seems now.) Moving my squad through a village, not knowing where the enemy is hiding, have a soldier hit and try to decide whether to leave him in the street dying or risk someone try to get to him, it was all sweat inducing stuff.

Am I missing any games today that would let me play at that level?

The individual solder level? I think the old 101st game mentioned upthread was about the last one I can recall. Other than things like Silent Storm and its ilk, with the weird sci-fi bits like Panzerkleins. Up until those come in though it’s pretty much a straight-up individual soldier level tactical game. JA3 is sort of like that it seems, if it’s anything like the older JA games, but even that isn’t quite like Computer Ambush probably.

Lots of squad/platoon level games though.

Combat Mission?

If a “wargame” requires a historical setting, the only thing I can think of is this Darkest Dungeon-like about Polish partisans. If it requires an attempt at a realistic simulation of war at the level of individual soldiers, I got nothing.

Maybe Second Front. I bought it a month ago and did not play it much but of what I’ve read, it’s a tough game but one where you move your guys around and have smaller squad encounters in towns, etc. Turn based. I’m installing it on my new laptop and will be playing it a bit this weekend.