I'm playing an M-rated game with my 7 year old, am I a terrible person?

I’m “a bit” older than Wumpus (my kid’s in college) and so the games which were verboten back in the day were quite different. That said, having been a single parent I often painfully went through the decision process you’re dealing with. The approach I settled on and learned to live with used this kind of logic:

  • I decided my kid is not a social experiment nor a statement to be made about the absurdity of cultural morays, so I separated my distaste for American prudishness from the situation.
  • I wanted him to be able to relate to others his age, and not be the kid that other parents declined to invite to birthday parties, etc…
  • I worked on video games back in the day (yeah, long, long time ago) and I didn’t want him to feel any shame toward them.

So I listened to his interests and picked up games to play which mirrored them. You liked Star Wars? Let’s get some Star Wars or other space games, even if a gazillion people get killed on screen. You liked Jurrasic Park? Dinosaur time! Lego toys are cool? Boy, are there some fun Lego games … You like Pirates? Time to grab that copy of Sid Meier’s.

Some of these games seemed way too difficult for his age, and often dealt with complexities he couldn’t quite grasp, but I found that gave him a sense of continuity and challenge both conceptually and in skill. During difficult or boring moments, he handed the controller/keyboard & mouse over to me, but that happened less and less with time - giving him a sense of pride. When he hung out with friends, there would normally be at least one or two that had played any of the games and they could connect through the shared experience.

If he brought up a game to me that had questionable content, I always said “Sure - as long as you’re comfortable playing it with me, we’ll play anything you’d like.” If he did want something particularly gory, sexy, or whatever, I wanted to be there to blunt the impact. At the same time, I didn’t want to restrain his natural curiosity. It turns out those moments were few and far between, as his interests tended to follow closer to his age group rather than mine.

This all seems to have worked out okay, although by no means would I hold myself up as an example of perfect parenting. We’re all individuals, kids and parents, and therefore come with unique sets of abilities and coping mechanisms. One thing I RE-learned along the way was that those same abilities and coping mechanisms help defend our kids against our own stupidity as parents every now and then. Ever remember thinking how irrational/dumb/whatever your parents were when you were a kid? Yeah, sometimes that was actually the case, and as parents we need to come to grips with the fact that we’ll find our own ways of being doofuses and learn to look for the hallmarks of such moments.

In line with that, the final rule I had about games was if I ever got to a point where I felt too uncomfortable discussing something in depth, I made him promise me to push for the answer as to why. I’d say about 95% of the time, I was able to explain pretty well without going too far into any hair-pulling details, and the other moments I came to realize it was just something that I had to get over.

PS - as an aside, Teiman is right about mods; those were also a great boon for my kid. They helped shape games more into what he wanted rather than what the developers originally intended

Wumpus - I feel the ratings are really intended for two other classes of parents who are not you: shitty parents, and parents who are too busy for their kids and leave them alone all the time. The ratings are too broad and it comes down to the content in each game.

You are obviously a fantastic parent and one that spends quality time with your children. So if it makes you and your son happy to play an M rated game and you’re there to help him understand - then it will be window dressing to the real function going on. You and him bonding, and his growing up. The fact that a game may show blood when someone is hit vs. another that does not leading to an “M” rating is silly. Blood is natural and we all bleed. Even little kids. We need food and clothing - Indians had their kids doing this at the age your son is. Once again, no biggie skinning animals. Your son will always be barraged by bad language. As long as you don’t use it around him, and you are his idol, then he won’t want to either.

Don’t sweat it. You’re a good Father :) If every parent in this world were as involved with you, this planet would be a million times better.

I would feel extremely uncomfortable as a parent with a son and daughter so young. Would you let them watch an R rated movie with you? It’s essentially the same thing. Did you let them watch Deadpool with you? How about Mad Max?

God will not punish you for making me laugh so hard.

Your kid is probably going to be a serial killer though.

Seriously though, I think that there is an important nuance that you should keep impressing upon your kids if you are going to play such games, and that is that they are make believe, and inherently different from real life. This is the critical thing which makes such things harmless.

I don’t have children, I can only relate my own experience as a kid.

Back when I was in 4th grade (what is that, 10 years old or so?) I always had a hard time with my reading assignments at school. I read well, I just didn’t particularly enjoy reading. It wasn’t torture by any means, but books were just so dull and boring. Every week we’d go to the school library and pick out the next book we’d want to read. I’d trudge through it, but I never enjoyed it. The closest I came to actually getting into a book was one of the Narnia titles.

I have no recollection of what prompted this, but I remember being at home one day and my dad comes into the room and plops down this mammoth paperback book in front of me. He’s not really one to talk much, so all he really said was “I really liked this book and just finished it, I thought maybe you’d like it to” and left it that. I think I picked it up and started reading it mostly because I had never seen anything like it before. I mean this thing was hundreds and hundreds of pages! In a single book! Wow.

The book in question is not exactly a book you give a kid in the 4th grade, for a few reasons. The reading level is too high for starters, but the book also is pretty dark and deals with some disturbing topics. I still have no idea why he gave me that book, but it quite literally changed my life.

The book in question? Lord Foul’s Bane, the first book in Stephen R. Donaldson’s The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant series. Yeah. I had to do a fair amount of vocabulary building while reading that book, but it grabbed me from the start. I read it for hours a day, I was completely enthralled. There was this magical world, and the main character is just a huge dick! Worse than a dick, he raped somebody. I was utterly shocked and horrified. I thought the main characters were always the heroes and good guys and always did the right thing, but that wasn’t what was happening here. And he has leprosy. What is leprosy anyway, isn’t it something from the Bible? I didn’t know what to make about any of this stuff, this was like nothing I had ever seen or read before.

In any case, I realized from that moment onward that I didn’t hate reading, I hated reading kid’s books. I became an avid reader after that. Reading those fantasy books led me into D&D. D&D led me into computer games. Computer games and the necessary digital acrobatics required to free up just enough memory to run the latest and greatest led me into my career as a software developer and general tinkerer (I don’t know how many panicked nights I had at 3AM trying to figure out how to get the family computer working again after I screwed up the config.sys or autoexec.bat files).

That’s my very, very, long way of saying that I don’t think playing an M-rated game with a 7-year old makes someone a bad person at all. I think I turned out pretty decent, anyway. I’ve yet to rape anyone or contract leprosy, so I don’t think it could have all been bad!

Kids are impressionable, I saw Alien way too early and had a lot of shitty nightmares on that, it kinda ruined the horror/scary genre for me forever.

Just sayin.

The really sad part is that this is your reasoning. Just what is supposed to make RDR a special (positive) experience for a 7yo? I’m sure he’s having a good time. But he’d be having a good time doing anything together with his father. Really, is there a good reason for that thing to be RDR rather than something age-appropriate, other than that you feel like replaying RDR?

The key seems to be “cartoon” versus “filming actual people doing bad things to each other”

Specifically

Across the early and middle childhood, laboratory experiments using cartoons with comedic violence have consistently failed to demonstrate significant differences in person-oriented aggression. […] Field experiments have consistently shown that aggressive behavior towards peers increases following the viewing of non-comedic violent cartoons.

So whether it is seen as “cartoon” or “real people” is significant. I feel the Xbox 360 level of graphics in RDR is nowhere near “looks like a YouTube video of real people doing it”.

This is great. I feel like your response is the answer to @jsnell’s question as well. Sometimes (not always – I don’t plan to play a huge laundry list of M rated games with my son from this point on) the way you play with your kids is by not dumbing it down to kid level.

And the RDR narrative of redemption is ultimately a positive one, a bad guy turning into something better.

My son is nine and going into fourth grade next month. So far I’ve kept him away from playing most M-rated titles. He’s pushed hard to play GTA, “because all my friends are playing and talking about it”, but I’ve held the line on that. I did let him play Batman: Arkham Knight, but that’s because it’s a very soft M, and I was aware of the two scenes that earned it an M (Batman interrogating a baddie with the wheel of the Batmobile against his face and also a violent sequence towards the end of the game in which you are not playing Batman).

I’ve worked on kids games (among other projects) over the past 10 years and it’s definitely been noticeable in focus tests how younger and younger kids are playing the GTAs and Call of Duty. I think that’s part of the reason I want to keep my son in the E-10 and T area for as long as possible, as he’ll have the rest of his life to explore that stuff.

That said, I think all kids are different, and if you are playing RDR with your son, are available to answer any questions about it and steer away from scenes that push the boundaries, I think you are far from crossing the line as a parent.

I have a completely different gaming challenge in my household, which I have thought about posting about and asking other parents about their experience.

Exactly my thoughts, well said!

The problem with jsnell’s criticism is that it’s essentially circular reasoning that misses the point of wumpus’ question.

It assumes that RDR is not “age appropriate”. Why is that the case? Because the ESRB says so? Sorry, but their opinion is completely worthless, at least to me.

The question as to whether a game like RDR is actually age appropriate is not really as cut and dry as some are suggesting. There may be societal beliefs about such things, but those beliefs are not necessarily justified.

Would the child be able to watch a movie like Saving Private Ryan in the his public school? I think the community would be outraged. The easiest way to solve this is to ask the mother if she thinks this is wise. Most mom’s in my experience want gentle things for their children at that age and I think both parents (if able) should discuss it and agree on whatever is decided.

Right, other than the swearing, the sex, the casual non-cartoon violence, murder and executions, and a bunch of blood, just which part is inappropriate? Oh, actually we already have a partial answer to that. Because even Wumpus who is fine with most of the above listed a few specific events / scenes he wanted to avoid. What are the odds that there are other disturbing things that he forgot about, and stumbles onto while playing with the kid?

Unless one of the readers of this thread happens to be a child developmental psychologist and can educate us on the latest peer reviewed state of the art, all we have to go by are our opinions. Why does my opinion need some kind of extra justification, while the opposite view just gets a free pass?

But the community being outraged doesn’t actually mean anything. That isn’t actually a legitimate argument that anything bad has happened. It presumes that the community is well informed and acts rationally, which i think we know is not always the case.

Well, this goes without saying, not because mother’s are somehow omniscient, but because both parents should have a say in how a child is raised.

I’m not sure why you seem so focused on what would outrage the community. The point is that kids just aren’t ready for this crap. Let them enjoy their childhood before they’re introduced to rape, murder, and the rest.

This I can relate to, but my event happened in the seventh grade, and it was my brothers who got me reading. It was some trash D&D book (maybe Pools of Darkness) but I went from a horrible reader (I was in special supplemental reading classes) to an avid one in about a year, finishing off the hobbit and Lord of the Rings by 4th grade, and the War of the Lance (and to round it out, battletech books in between) . My dad always read to me growing up, but there was something about reading on my own, books geared to older kids and adults that was so much more appealing. It just clicked. Then I became obsessed, and know I don’t dare pick up a book, because will spend a whole day reading instead of, well anything else. Anyway, I appreciated the story, even if The Unbeliever was on a whole another level from what got me hooked.

Says who?

I think that a problem we often have is that we try to shield kids from the world, when the reality is you can’t.

So Wumpus’ kid encounters stuff representative of bad aspects of the world while playing a game with his dad. He’s going to encounter then eventually anyway. At least like this, wumpus can talk to him and explain stuff.

Common sense? Seven is not 13 or 15. Seriously, what gain is there in exposing a kid to this at such a young age? What benefit?

How about some hardcore porn next? I mean they’re going to be exposed to it anyways. Maybe show the kid Liveleak to teach him about car accidents and what they do to the human body. It’s the real world, right?

Children are tender shoots and shielding them from bad weather until they are well rooted is the goal of every parent. I agree it may not be possible in every situation but I know it was my goal to help my kids get ready for what the world has to offer, and it does not have to be rushed. Every parent has to determine this for themselves and wumpus’s question shows he cares because he is mulling this over.