1709

I was under the impression that was legal migration, does that include illegal migration as well? Since this is the focus point of concern, again I’m more concerned about the exploitation that hurts the migrants and American workers by a minority of employers gaming the system to fill their own pockets.

1710

For illegal immigrants, they aren’t able to leverage The social safety net, and add a result, you get a net gain economically in terms of revenue.

1711

That’s not entirely true to my understanding. For instance, emergency room visits? We end up paying for that? What about education for their kids, and even free lunch programs. Also to take a specific case that I experienced, maids that worked for cash (and under min wage) because they were illegal . They were not paying in to taxes, and the cost we paid, outweighed what they paid in (in my limited example). I’ve not seen a greater study in the area, but I’d be interested in seeing a vetted/non partisan one.

Also is tragic our poorly managed migration system allows people to live in these conditions, where they cant get the help they need.

1712

How many American citizens applying for low level jobs can produce passports for a job? I have done I-9s, we took SS Cards and Drivers License. At the time I believe that is all we were required to have.

Now if a guy comes in with fake ID’s I imagine he is willing to lie on an I-9 as well.

1713

Again, in many cases you are talking about legal immigrants.

Of course aren’t a great number of illegal immigrants cited actually legal immigrants who have over stayed there visas, or something like that.

1714

Yes, it is true. There are numerous studies supporting this.

These are generally paid for by property taxes, so illegal immigrants contribute exactly the same amount to this as you do.

Additionally, in the case of school lunches, this cost is so hilariously low that it’s done to even mention it.

One thing you need to consider, is that illegal immigrants still usually pay taxes. They just don’t collect on a lot of the major benefits, like social security. And they can’t collect things like welfare.

Most pay income taxes, payroll taxes… they all pay sales taxes, property taxes, etc.

1715

Everything I have read (but am far too lazy to try and cite) indicates we profit overall on immigration, both undocumented and legal. States end up losing money but the federal government makes more than they and the states lose combined.

1716

Yes, the majority of illegal immigrants in the US originally came over on a Visa, which means that they are generally highly educated people making pretty good money.

1717

And they are not taking those jobs from Americans. I have no doubt the doctors aren’t, I am not so sure the nurses and tech people aren’t.

1718

On some level, i kind of don’t give a crap for those kinds of jobs… Their employers aren’t paying less than minimum wage. Immigration isn’t depressing wages in any real way for those jobs.

1719

Like a whole insane shitload of them.

1720

Well, a lot of engineering/IT types claim that the H1-B (however you write it) visas depress earnings, and I’m not so sure they’re wrong. After all, it’s not like those visa holders can compete among different employers in the field. They have to stick with the sponsoring employer, so it’s a take it or leave it thing, and if they take it, they’re filling a spot that would go (and have to attract with sufficient $$$) a person with skills/qualifications necessary who does have the ability to field a number of offers.

EDIT : “field offers” not farm offers.

1721

I work in IT, and at Intel for over a decade…yes saq quite a few H1-B but never felt personally threated by it. I get it, if someone did though.

I roll my eyes at employers complaining to have import workers though. We had something like 10% of our workforce let off ever few years, and all those people have to fend for themselves. No outlet to retrain displaced workers, and then companies say they have to import people…or maybe you could partner with the government to retrain displaced workers and help solve the very problem you create…but that’s just my useless opinion…

1722

This isn’t just an academic issue, though. In order to maintain its position as the world’s leading economy, the U.S. must avoid the ills of a shrinking market that now plagues countries in Europe and East Asia. With China rapidly growing wealthier, the world’s economic center of gravity is shifting in that direction. The size of the Chinese market is tempting every global company to locate its factories and offices and research centers close to that huge, dense market instead of in the graying U.S.

So far, the U.S. has resisted this pull because of its wealth. China’s huge numbers of workers and consumers now have total purchasing power roughly equal to the U.S.’s richer, more productive population. But as China continues to develop, that balance will shift. Unless the U.S. population continues to grow, particularly with skilled, highly productive workers, it could find itself slowly regressing.

So continued immigration isn’t just safe for the U.S.; it is an economic imperative.

1723

I don’t think anyone but the biggest Trump idiot actually favors reducing the legal immigration of those people with technology and medical skills that we need. But if you are here on a visa and don’t renew it you are illegal.

In my mind I see Baboo from the Seinfeld show being returned to India because Jerry forgot to give him his mail.

1724

I wouldn’t be against having higher income requirements for H1-B visas.

1725

To be clear: You admit that you have no data behind your opinion at all, but you reject a report that contradicts your opinion because while it does have data it is only a draft report? That sure sounds like motivated reasoning to me.

1726

I’m sure it’s not a punch in name, get SSN out system.

I bet it’s a enter name, enter SSN, enter DOB, get YES ALL CHECKS OUT system.

Now, you want SSN’s, medical records and probably finance stuff have it. Or hell, one of those illegal databases. Apparently I can pay $40 after I google my name to get my SSN. Fucking BCBS leak.

1727

Reject, no. I consider it something I want to watch and see if it develops into something tangible.

My opinion? Yes it is I suppose. I’m not attached it per se, but its also accepted as common wisdom in most circles.

I’m open to other ways of thinking, but before I accept something as fact, I need facts to back it up. Otherwise common wisdom is all any of us have.

1728

That’s quite an assertion, and most certainly not true.
Among many Republican or low-information voters, sure, but I don’t think that qualifies as ‘most circles.’