I’m with you, Tim, but I understand where the more cautious are coming from. I do think that as Imperator is a fusion of their other games (most notably EU4), there are going to be comparisons drawn where EU4’s solid release followed up by 6 years of further development might highlight where Imperator is lacking. I think the same might hold doubly true for CK2 fans, as this isn’t nearly as character-driven as that game is.
That being said, I’m totally okay with that as long as Imperator brings enough new gameplay experiences to the table. EU4 is my favorite strategy game of all time, but I have 1500+ hours in it. I’ve explored nearly every nook and cranny that game has to offer, so I’m all aboard with a new mix of the same formula. Just the different setting alone should spice things up quite a bit for me.
I’m also not bothered by seeing areas that might be fleshed out with DLC in the future. We all know Paradox’s business and development model, and so do they. The reality is still that you have X months with Y developers to create a game, so you figure out what you can scope and go from there. I’ll only have a problem with that if the game is just crap at release and doesn’t become enjoyable or engaging until later. I think that was the case with Stellaris for a lot of people on Qt3, but Imperator is on much more familiar ground for the game designers at PDS.
My main problem with this (as with all games), is I just don’t have the unending hours of time required for maximal enjoyment of this kind of game available very often. So I’ll just wait with buying it until I have a few weekends free, which may very well be in sometime next year… or the year after.
It’s also why I keep adding “build epic strategy game with short playing time” to my gamedev bucket list every time I get around one of these games. Just need to make time for that as well…
I haven’t had as much time with EU4 as I have with CK2, so I’m probably looking at Imperator through a CK2 filter. From that perspective, it comes across fresh enough that I’m excited about it. I’m interested in the differences due to the different time period as well.
As much as I like Paradox games, I’ve spent the least time with Stellaris for exactly these reasons. Stellaris, however, feels like the biggest stretch for the EU/CK/HOI framework. I’m willing to jump on the Imperator bus early because it feels like less of a departure from their core.
Anyone with more experience than I with Paradox games have any opinion if the deluxe version is worth the extra $15? Doesn’t seem like it would be to me, but I guess I’m not sure.
The Deluxe Pack contains:
Hellenistic World Flavor Pack
The empire of Alexander is torn into separate kingdoms as former generals and functionaries squabble over his mantle. In Egypt, the famous Ptolemy holds the body of the great conqueror and the riches of the Nile. Seleucus has consolidated his power in Persia while Antigonus has built a base in Anatolia. The cruel Lysimachos dominates Thrace, and Macedonia, the heart of the empire, has fallen to Cassander the usurper.
This pack adds new color to the Wars of the Diadochi, including new units models and game flavor.
4 New Army Models: Unique army designs for Macedonia, Phrygia, the Seleucids and Thrace.
4 New Ship Models: Unique warship designs for Egypt, Macedonia, Phrygia, and the Seleucids, including depictions of the famous Hellenistic superships.
Special On Map Monuments: The Mausoleum of Alexander, the Acropolis of Rhodes, the Acropolis of Pergamon, the Palace at Ay Khanum, the Library of Alexandria, and the Argead Palace of Macedonia,
Six Hellenistic Flavor Events: About the Legacy of Alexander, the veterans of Alexander’s wars, the Spread of Hellenistic Culture, City Athletic Events, and Trade.
Alexander’s Body Event Chain: Try to steal the remains of Alexander the Great and erect a monument to his memory.
New Event Art: Dedicate new art for the included unique events.
New music: Special music composed specifically for the Hellenistic players.
I would say start with the base game and see how you like it. If I were a betting man I’d bet on the Deluxe Edition materials being released as separate DLC sooner rather than later. And you’ll probably be able to find it for less than $15.
The Deluxe edition stuff tends to be fluff and it appears to be that way here. I’m just going with the base version myself, I see the Deluxe version more of a “Yay I support the developers!” but I’ll have plenty of chances to do that with future expansions. ;)
Deluxe editions for Paradox games tend to be quite fluffy, since much of the early DLC tends to be quite fluffy itself (unit skins ect, which seem pretty overpriced in general for the LOD of the game itself).
Kevin, what did you think of their prior Rome game and do you have any more or less confidence that this one will turn out to be good?
I’m still remembering getting burned by Stellaris and wish I never bought that one. But, this is more in their wheelhouse. I thought it may be fun to play this from the start and take the journey with others. But then again I still haven’t done much with EU IV after playing at release even though that one is a good game!
I was disappointed by Stellaris too, and I can understand if that influences the purchasing decision of a prsoecptive buyer, but just keep in mind that even though both are Paradox games this game has a different designer. Johan is the lead behind this game, and was also the lead for EU4. He has a track record of consistently delivering really good grand strategy games, at least in my view.
EU: Rome was a direct adaptation of EU3 for ancient times, and this one is more of its own beast (which I suppose is one reason they didn’t name this EU: Rome 2). Imagine the core gameplay loop of EU4 coupled with a lite version of the CK2 character management / internal politics, and more detailed population management.
If you decide to pick it up, you can trust that at least Kevin and myself will be around to read and write numerous posts about it during the first weeks of release!
Speaking of, @KevinC you got a first game in mind? I am eyeing the ‘Hispania Universalis’ achievement (form Greater Iberia) and thinking of starting out as a small Iberian tribe. The early game should be exciting with many tribes around to conquer, and the mid game boss is there in the form of Carthage. The mechanics for Republics look very interesting so I may go for one of them on the second play through, perhaps even (gasp) Rome itself.
Requirements for this game should be the same as for ck2 right? I want to get on board with a Paradox game on day one for a change but I’ll be stuck with a 7 year old laptop for the next 2 weeks.
When EU:Rome came out I didn’t have time to dig into and learn a new grand strategy game, so I largely missed that one. I dabbled in it briefly, but mostly I just know it by reputation.
In comparison to Stellaris, my confidence is higher for this one because as you said it’s more in their wheelhouse. It’s a grand strategy game instead of a 4X hybrid, it’s historical instead of scifi, etc. My confidence is also higher because I love EU4 and this sounds like it’s borrowed most of its DNA from that title.
That being said, I would expect:
The AI to have its struggles. I can’t tell you the last time I played a strategy game that had solid AI out of the box. The problem is a lot of times there are mechanical changes happening to these games leading up to the last month or so of release, and that means the AI is often left in the lurch a bit. However…
I also expect the AI to improve over time. HOI4 AI still has its issues, but it’s lightyears ahead of where it was. The Stellaris AI is more of a sine wave because of how many core features keep getting torn out and replaced, but by all accounts it’s getting back on its feet now in 2.2.7.
There will be features that were out of scope for shipping the game. I’ll see this as solid product and project management, others will see it as DLC bait. Six years after release, there are still people that shout that the latest EU4 mechanics coming in an expansion should have been there at release. ;)
One huge for me is that Imperator is the first Paradox title to ship with the Jomini middle layer that’s built on top of the Clausewitz engine. This has the potential to be a huge boon for modders and hence a boon for the players. I’m really excited about that one.
Overall, I expect a EU4-derived game set in a new time period but with elements of CK2 and Victoria 2 to flesh out the lower level of detail in the game that I’ve always craved. I expect that it’ll have its share of shortcomings, bugs, and desperately needed QoL additions but that I’ll enjoy it anyway.
