MLB 2018 - Hope for a 7-game WS so they'll play on Halloween


#1082

Note that I mention this first as a Dodgers fan and second as a guy who generally prefers pitchers, but what’s up with the two guys who voted FOR Clemens but AGAINST Bonds?* Both guys have the same baggage, but if I’m not mistaken the evidence against Clemens is stronger and he’s certainly not in the same stratosphere as Bonds in terms of metrics and dominance (which, to be fair, almost no one is). I think the whole unanimous votes thing was always silly (as is the ‘first-ballot’ hall of fame thing), but it’s super strange that a closer is the one to finally get it.

Despite not caring much about the vote percentages, I’ll admit that I’m going to be annoyed if Jeter gets a higher percentage than Chipper Jones (not to mention Jeter’s more accomplished teammate Alex Rodriguez, who’ll get left out for other reasons).

*Edit: It strikes me that there’s probably more than two people who did this if there’s a few who left off Clemens and voted for Bonds.


#1083

A lot of those anti-unanimous vote guys have either died or had their voting privs revoked. Good.

Also, fun trivia: The Yankees originally tried Mariano Rivera in the rotation. In 1995, he got the start against the Mariners in a September match-up. Fifth inning, runners in scoring position, and Edgar Martinez laced an RBI single of Mo.

That was it. Rivera went to the bullpen after that game, never started again. Last guy he faced as a starting pitcher before starting the most epic closer career in MLB history is a guy he’s going into Cooperstown with.


#1084

A fucking relief pitcher got more votes than Willie Mays. OK.

I can’t even be bothered to do my yearly ‘fuck the HoF’ over the Bonds hypocrisy.


#1085

I hope Bonds never gets in, without a full acknowledgement of his roid usage. Same as Clemens. Both would have got in without them, they just had to be the best and so they used. Besides, they are both asses.


#1086

It’s great to see Halladay get in on the first year of eligibility. As a Blue Jays fan, Halladay pitching was one of the few reasons to watch some rather dreadful Jays teams.


#1087

Yeah they had a crazy advantage considering they were the only two guys in baseball taking advantage of chemistry at the time.


#1088

And have others known to have done it made t into the HoF? Palmiero, Sosa, McGwire?

Do I think Bonds and Clemens will eventually get in, sure. Because people like you will reward them for their drug use. I just hope it takes forever.


#1089

I mean, absolutely a bunch have. There’s no way that MLB has been the only clean sport while every other sport has been doping since the 60’s.

Amateur sports are full of doping. I have a friend who did steroids for HIGH SCHOOL baseball.

I hate to throw out names but Pudge and Bagwell were long rumored just to pick a couple.


#1090

The only difference is that Bonds and Clemens are the best hitter and pitcher of their era, and famously jerks - especially to media. Which is the voting body of the HOF.


#1091

My speculation is that both get in… as either year 10 nominees (the next few years of first timers is pretty thin) or are veterans committee picks.

I’d weigh it towards the latter personally.

At this point it’s clear Sosa will not be getting in, though by the numbers he would fit. Not in the Bonds stratosphere by far, but well within the top 50% of HoF. And it is purely a roids thing.

But look at all the athletes, especially ones from the 60’s through 80’s that got in, and we know a bunch of them used illegal substances, or other cheats, too.

Phil Niekro and Gaylord Perry anyone?


#1092

Yes, I’ve experienced Bonds’ wrath first-hand.


#1093

Storytime!


#1094

Yeah, Woolen, you can’t just leave it hanging there man!


#1095

Dude!


#1096

This was back right in the 90s. I was at an event for a baseball video game and Bonds came in to say a few words. We had known he was coming, and a buddy of mine asked if I could get a glove signed for him. (It wasn’t even a real baseball glove, as it was so short notice all he had on hand was a softball glove).

So Bonds spoke for a few minutes and was about to leave, and I sort of asked if he could sign a glove. He paused for a second, then motioned for me to come up. And he signed it and said, “It’s nice you keep your objectivity” (sarcastically, of course). But I had broken the ice, and a few other people got their stuff signed.

After he left, everyone looked at me and said, “I’m glad you asked, cause was I wasn’t”.

And that’s how I survived getting a softball glove signed by Barry Bonds, and it wasn’t even for me.


#1097

I think you may have mistyped something here, because I’m just getting a parsing error.


#1098

I will agree that those rumored have gotten in, but those who have been caught have not. And Bonds, Clemens and others I mentioned were caught.

Bonds and Clemens made millions off their drug use, I just want them kept out of the HoF.

One of my major problems with just writing off pros drug use is the effect it has on those farther down the athletic ladder, if you will. When high school and college kids feel the need to use drugs to succeed you have a problem.


#1099

My objection with steroids is that it blew up numbers in a ridiculous way. Bonds numbers after juicing are ridiculous for a player his age. Bonds never hit 50 HRs in a season and then at 37 he hits 73? He had his best years after 35, which is nuts for baseball. Players are in decline and many are retired by 37. It’s the same with Clemens. He was in decline and then started juicing and dominated again.

(Another complaint I have about Bonds is the guy essentially wore armor while batting and crowded the plate, taking away the outside portion of the plate from pitchers. I swear sometimes it looked like he had his elbows over the plate while waiting for the pitch.)


#1100

In a few years, the Mariners could have as many as 6 players in the HoF (only counting players who spent at least 5 seasons with them, so dudes like Rickey Henderson and Gaylord Perry don’t count). Randy Johnson, Griffey, and Edgar are already in. Ichiro and Beltre will be first-balloters in a few years, and A-Rod will probably get in eventually.

The only other expansion franchise with that much Hall of Fame muscle are the Expos, with Dawson, Raines, Carter, Pedro, and Big Daddy Vladdy.

Number of World Series appearances by both teams: 0

Great players dominating in their late 30’s is not that unusual. At ages 37; Hank Aaron hit .327 w/47 homers. Lou Brock hit .301 and stole 56 bases. Carlton Fisk hit 37 HRs, which beat his previous mark by 11. George Brett won a batting title. Ted Williams hit .345, then hit .388 the next season, and won another batting crown the season after that. Musial hit .337. Carew hit .339

Players having a sudden spike in power is more unusual, but there have been other instances of that as well. Wade Boggs couldn’t get past single digits almost every year of his career, then hit 24 in '87. The only other time he reached double digits was when he hit 11 several years later. Davey Johnson hit 43 HRs in 1973, which still stands as the most HR hit in a season by a second baseman. His next best total was 18. Brady Anderson hit 50 once, while never hitting more than 24 in any other year.

And like Bonds, the single season record holders for the other extra base hits had seasons that seemed to come out of nowhere. Earl Webb holds the doubles record at 67, but never hit more than 30 any other season. Chief Wilson’s 36 triples are the all-time mark there, but his next best total was 14.


#1101

If Ichiro has his way, it won’t be any time soon for him: