This week we got just what we expected! At the 1:28 mark, we dig into a discussion of salvaging in movies.
This movie makes me not care about Batman or Superman. That's quite the accomplishment!
I enjoyed the film much more the second time around. Some of the choices made in telling the story were incomprehensible the first time around, like the dream sequences.
With that said, the build-up is a little slow, but the last hour more than made up for it. I especially enjoyed a true-to-life, ass-kicking Wonder Woman. That was a real treat.
I enjoyed the movie, the biggest flaw it has is, in my opinion, the editing in the first half, and 2nd biggest is the scene with Wonder Woman watching videos of the other metahumans, it was the typical Marvel after credits scene but for some reason crammed into the middle of the movie.
As a DC fan I didn't have any problems following the plot, or the character's motivations which from Tom's comments I guess doesn't happen if you don't read the comics.
For some reason the dark serious tone of this and Man of Steel really appeals to me, contrary to Marvel's usual half comedic tone that I find really tiresome and groan-inducing. I almost walked out on GotG and have avoided seeing any Marvel Studios film in the theater since then.
I should also mention that I'm not from the US so some of the 9/11 imagery doesn't bother me as much.
The statement, "I almost walked out on GotG" does not compute! Surely "GotG" stands for something I've never heard of, like "Gambit over the Gap" (in which Gambit goes scouting for some reasonably priced jeans). Because if what you're saying is what I think you're saying...you'd better not be.
Kidding!
I wish I'd thought of your point about Wonder Woman watching those MetaTube videos as the typical Marvel after credits scene, because that observation is perfect.
a) The one percent line is so gross, immoral and obscene it's a quote form Dick Cheney: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
b) I think it was Dingus in the 3x3 trying to come up with people scavenging armor, and there a fairly effective misdirict in Riddick, during the Dick B Ridiculous as Jason Vorhees section, where a dude salvages the equivalent of a hubcap to use as armor. And then he gets sheared in half by the beartraps we thought he was triggering.
In response to a), isn't that fascinating though?
That a comic book movie would delve into themes like this? It's often said that prejudice is based on a lack of information, and Batman is the typical right-wing bigot in regards to Superman, he repeateadly denies him his basic humanity with lines like "you don't know fear, men know fear". And in the climax of their fight what finally stops him is the realisation that Superman's motivations are not at all different from his own.
I'm exagerating of course, I've never walked out of a movie in my life, and I never will, I'm too narative driven but I was groaning hard even before they escape from the space prison, and the dance-off at the end almost gave me a stroke. Yeah aparently MCU minus RDJ = unbearable for me, since I saw Iron Man 3 and I loved it. It helped that the villain of that movie was really complex by to MCU standards.
In regards to BvS:DoJ, apparently Zack Snyder's original cut was 3 hours long, and well recieved by test audiences, but the studio made him cut about 35 minutes, and it is really really obvious that the movie sufferend immensely.
There's an R rated Director's cut coming out July 16 that's gonna restore all that. I personally can't wait, I wonder if it will pull a Kindom of Heaven.
Interesting. Are you a fan of Kingdom of Heaven? Or are you talking about the transformation the longer cut is supposed to have created?
I'm happy to hear you didn't actually walk out of Guardians, since as you probably know I love that movie in the extreme, and I was as worried about it as I was about Avengers going in. Actually, that's not accurate. I was more worried about Avengers, but for different reasons. Still, I freaking loved Guardians.
I will tell you this, watching Man of Steel for the third or fourth time tonight, this time with my son, I started to see your point about the tonal difference having value.
I'm talking about how the extra 45 minutes on that aparently transformed it from below average to really good. Granted I didn't see it in theaters but I liked the Director's Cut which had 45(!) extra minutes.
Have you watched both versions?
No. Just the home release Director's Cut. I'm just going by the reviews they both got.
Hey Tom,
can you be a little more specific on your argument about what kids can learn from superhero movies?
I strongly disagree but would like for you to get into a little more detail how you mean that. (although i grew up with comics and loved them until i somehow "grew up" through the first avenger).
Lastly, i still find it funny that in an episode where the offficial word of the podcast was "tone-deaf" still both you and Christian didnt notice that besides the "Slaughter" at the End of Man of Steel,
- he also kinda looses his Home World and entire Race in the beginning to an Extinction Level Event
- his Parents die superbrutally (Dad gets to die even 2x2)
- and his Zombie Cpu Dad basically pushes him "Gods" responsibility for an entirely different race into his hands, claiming moral superiority and belittling the human condition. And we thought Britney Spear's Mom was tough. The irony of his statement seemed to have escaped you as well if i remember correctly. An AI entity denying a race ownership and responsibility for the self that came into this moment how exactly...
Also loved Tom's actual Sexism and the gloaty, condescending remarks about Snyder as a person.
Btw. Christian, with you having so much "fuck" to say this episode:
Is it worse to have a kid see two people make out in a soft porn kind of way (nipples and all) with no relevant context, or see a person disintegrated, beheaded, crushed, exploded etc. like in Avengers?
Is that make out seen even a problem for kids generally? And why?
Looking forward to your guys comments.
Best,
Martin
P.S.:
@Kelly: Please check here for the current weeks film showings in their original language (many european flicks with english subtitles as well!) if you dont have anything set up to fulfill your needs already. ;)
https://kino-fahrplan.de/progr...
OmeU = english subtitles
OmU = Deutsche Subtitle, Ja?
If Kelly doesnt read comments id be grateful if you guys could poke him onto this one, or shoot him the link. Cheers.
The muslim in me says violence in movies is always preferable to erotic displays.
The christian in me says both are dispensable.
The atheist in me says we don't get nearly enough of both instances on PG 13 ratings (kids find internet porn and isis beheading videos much sooner).
I don't know what the right answer is anyway and stopped caring a century ago.
Dear Martin P.,
Kelly does check these comments on his own, but I'll give him a heads up. Especially since he's the only one not getting any criticism in your post! But that is usually the case.
As for your post, I'm not sure what your point is about him losing his parents, and his dad 2x2. That is a staple of even Disney animated movies, and one I have found weird and have commented upon in the past. I'd like you to expand upon your idea of Zombie Cpu Dad pushing God responsibility on him, since I think that's a really interesting point. A point well made, Martin P.
As for my use of "fuck" this episode, you are spot on. I noticed that about halfway through our conversation, and I feel pretty bad about that. I was way too loose with that word in this episode, and I should have been more careful. Please remember that this is a conversation, and sometimes when you get going you let go. I should have been more circumspect.
As for your actual point, about whether it is worse for a kid to see soft-porn making out, as you put it, than to see the various violent horrors you describe...no. I'd rather my kid see people showing affection than see them showing brutality. It's how I manage the objectification of both that is often my struggle. The normalization of violence is weird in our society, but I'm sure I can manage that in how my son handles his relationships. Partly because of how cartoonish the violence in question is. Helping him grow into a healthy person with regard to how he treats women (or whomever he has a romantic relationship with), is a more complex issue, and not something I can dismiss to cartoons or comics. So that's why I'm often more sensitive to that as an issue.
Thanks for your comments, Martin.
-Christien
"Also loved Tom's actual Sexism and the gloaty, condescending remarks about Snyder as a person."
I must have missed that part of the podcast. Was I randomly capitalizing letters or is that more embellishment on your part? Oh, wait, I have a feeling you're German. Would it be "actually Racist" of me to tell you guys to stop using capital letters like they're going out of style?
You get an R rating for this episode for multiple use of swear words. I hope it doesn't hurt you at the box office.
We call it "language throughout" AndyCC. And it can only help.
I put it in mostly to see if you would use it to make the argument about "me" and try to make me flesh that out more instead of answering the question. Which actually answers yours as well.
So what about what kids can learn from superhero movies Tom? Im polish, btw.
And how about you get into the discussion first, and we talk about the form later?
I kept everyrhing as lower-case as possible as to not distract you too much. Feel free to elaborate on my use of a hyphen though.
I think you shouldn't go for an R rating just cause Deadpool pulled it off.