…and in the first three movies chronologically speaking, the heroes were on the side of who later became the villains, being betrayed at the end of the third movie… one hero (Anakin) falls…
This was all brought about in part by the Jedi’s own actions, who lie to serve their own ends, ignore due process, etc…
It’s like you haven’t seen episodes 1-3, but the same threads are there in 4-6 although partly retconned in by 1-3.
/shrug. Idk. For some reason I just can’t fathom how the scene in question might “damage” Star Wars as a franchise from a moralistic standpoint.
I’m not saying the scene damages the franchise from a moralistic standpoint, not at all. It’s a cool scene. It’s awesome. I certainly enjoyed it. I also enjoy the scene where Hans Landa “interviews” the French farmer in Inglourious Basterds, without it damaging my morals, IMO. And a bunch of other things where what is happening is bad.
Also, I don’t apply real life ethics to a movie about Space Wizards. Because it’s a movie about Space Wizards. I don’t go “There are no true good or bad people, this Force thing is totally bullshit, laser swords wouldn’t work, FTL travel is impossible, the Death Star is dumb, where are all the missiles and drones, ghosts aren’t a thing, etc, etc”.
I don’t watch LotR and go “You know, the orcs might have been the aggressors, but I can’t get behind Gondor’s campaign of extermination, genocide is never the answer…”
No, no, I don’t. I agree with everything you wrote until the last sentence.
We just seem to be on different sides of this one particular issue; I think it’s ‘OK’ to like the Imperials, de facto “bad guys” of Star Wars… maybe it’s because I played “Tie Fighter” in high school or something. I just sort of assumed it was more or less universally accepted that some people enjoy parts of Star Wars where the Imperials are kicking butt, maybe because they truly are the underdogs practically speaking… I didn’t think this would ever offend someone’s moral sensibilities, was somewhat surprised to find that it did, and that’s what I was responding to. I very much agree with not applying real life ethics to a movie about Space Wizards.
Just because Storm Troopers can’t hit the side of a barn doesn’t make them the underdogs. They control everything. People are hiding from them and being hunted down by them like rats. How are they the underdogs?
The same Tie Fighter where you have to escort Vader and he is just a chump in a fancy Tie Defender? I think that is the only time Tie Fighter dropped the ball. Vader is supposed to be an ace fighter, there is no need for an escort.
And yes, Tie Fighter, they don’t make games like that any more.
My point was regarding the question ‘should Star Wars be taken as a moral object lesson, and modified as such?’ My opinion is a resounding no; it’s a work of fantasy, not meant to educate people on morality. It’s great if you find examples of morality within the Star Wars arc, but to suggest a scene be removed because ‘it looked like the bad guys were winning’ really offended my own sense of morals in a 1984-esque way. You’ve consistently missed the point of my argument; I’m not making a case for the Imperials as much as making a case against censorship, while pointing out the irony in choosing Star Wars as a whole as a platform to impart morality. That’s the best I’ve got.
A lot more room than Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings spends a lot of time on the corrupting force of evil, and it’s harder for me to imagine someone vicariously enjoying moments where Frodo falls prey to the ring’s pull than say, Vader’s casual light saber swish at the beginning of the duel in Empire.
Saw it last night with my 7 and 10 year old sons. I loved it. The 7 year old is pretty done with star wars, the movies have gotten too long and too complicated for him to care “And why do they always have to have somebody kissing!”
The 10 year old dug it but criticized it for being too heavy handed in telegraphing the actions scenes.
One thing is for sure, star wars fatigue is starting to set in with the kids. I think it’s even a more general ‘event movie’s’ fatigue. Between new Disney, new Pixar, new marvel, new star wars, it’s an embarrassment of riches really. When everything is a huge event movie then nothing is.
Not a surprise. There was no way this movie was going to match the insane hype Force Awakens had. It’s going to be a while before we see that kind of audience anticipation again.
That article is way off. With second weekend estimates just out it’s 175 million behind Force Awakens after its second weekend. That’s running 33 percent behind so far. Seems like the people who weren’t so hot on TLJ are pretty significant number.
It did match the hype, hence the record breaking opening weekend. The huge (also record breaking) 69% 1st to 2nd weekend drop proves that, despite the hype and raving reviews, the movie didn’t deliver for many people and its word of mouth strength was very, very poor.
