The Black Lives Matter movement


#1482

It wasn’t a no-knock warrant-- the knocking was mentioned in the story.

Some details in the story-- such as they kept the computer “for forensics” and returned it after a year, strike me as particularly convincing.

I think there’s a narrative where this makes sense:

Theft at school. Finger of blame gets pointed to this kid. Policeman confronts kid, who doesn’t own up (because innocent) and given his future activist status, gives policeman some attitude. Policeman threatens to escalate unless kid comes clean, and kid does not. Policeman decides to teach kid a lesson, gets warrant. Ridiculously militarized police serving of warrant, more or less as described. Afterwards, kid’s (well-off, one a lawyer) parents try to intervene, which hardens police response further.


#1483

Sorry, i thought he said the guys in miliary equipment busted in and held them at gunpoint.

A police officer can’t just “get a warrant”.

He’d have to go to a judge, and explain what crime had occurred and what he expected to get out of a search.

No reasonable judge would give a search warrant to a cop (who works on patrol at a school) over a calculator. Everyone understands that just wouldn’t happen, right? No rational judge gives you a search warrant because you want to “teach a kid a lesson”.

If it happened, that would indicate an absurd abandonment of judicial norms. Which could potentially happen, in our messed up system.

But his mom is a lawyer. She would have destroyed that police department and the judge if they had issued a search warrant and tossed her house over a freaking calculator.


#1484

School cop goes to a judge and describes the growing problem of small-electronics theft at School A. He lays out his suspicions and circumstantial evidence that this one kid might be behind a lot of the theft, even if they only have direct evidence for the one item. Give him a search warrant for that one item, and he’s sure they’ll turn up a LOT of other stuff and scare the rest of the (unknown number of) kids involved into going straight. Judge agrees.


#1485

I find that very hard to believe.

And i find it even harder to believe that his mom wouldn’t have gutted them in court afterwards.


#1486

Most people find this stuff to believe because they still don’t believe that police systems can just be corrupt over stupid shit. In order to still not believe that you have to ignore the literal bodies of unarmed people, the video recording of officers planting drugs, the bodycams mysteriously going off on all officers involved at the same time, the social media accounts of really messed up individuals paid to carry guns and service the public while talking about wanting to shoot people, hoping to.

There are really messed up individuals serving in the police force. We know that. It’s a fact. The only reason not to believe this person is to pretend that above doesn’t happen… and we know it does. We have proof it does, but requiring recorded evidence of these things happening or else it’s a like… that’s how we got here today. For everyone person we have a recording of wrong-doing there are hundreds, hundreds who are not afforded that protection

The only thing that is hard to believe about this story is why the knee-jerk rejection remains that it can’t happen.


#1487

I think I remember him. He had an issue because he wanted to carry guns wherever he goes and ran into an issue speaking at one of the schools because of it… think that was him.


#1488

I’m not seeing what’s so unbelievable about his story, when compared to things that have been proven to have happened. For example, rank these stories in order of likelihood:

a) Schoolkid is harassed by school cop, etc, as above.
b) Police roll up on 12yo kid sitting at park gazebo, based on 911 call about a likely fake gun, immediately shoot him dead.
c) Police respond to call about man pointing BB gun at customers, show up, immediately shoot 22yo man dead. Man was simply shopping, holding a BB gun, and talking on his cell phone at the store.


#1489

The big difference here compared to those cases is that since this involved a search warrant, it means that it had to involve more than just a jackass cop.

It means that it actually had to be signed off by a judge.

And the other thing is that it’s not a poor black kid with no access to the Justice system. It’s a kid whose mom is a white lawyer. Which probably exacerbates that first problem, since I suspect that the judge would realize that they were serving a search warrant on the home of a lawyer… For…a calculator?

It’s not like I’m having a knee jerk reaction, refusing to believe cops do bad things. I’ve posted tons of crap in this thread about how bad it is.

But acknowledging that cops do bad stuff, all the time, doesn’t mean that I’m gonna accept any story that shows up. This story seems weird.


#1490

It’s possible it’s entirely made up but it’s also very possible to be true. Given the lies & cover-ups we see all the time from cops & even judges, it’s not like it’s really that far-fetched. Hard to prove either way at this point I’m sure.


#1491

One small part of realizing how corrupt our justice system is, is finding out how easy it can be to get a magistrate (not judge, in many jurisdictions) to sign off on a warrant.

Another small part of realizing how corrupt our system of justice is, is contending with the entirely Supreme Court-created systems of qualified and absolute immunity.

I’m pretty sure I’ve suggested in many occasions before: read Radley Balko’s stuff, be it his books, Cato Instutite, Reason and Washington Post columns, blog. Any and all of it.


#1492

But to pull that stuff against a successful lawyer?

Part of the corruption in our system is that the foljs who tend to get preyed upon are those who can’t defend themselves. Those who wouldn’t know their legal rights, and new able to fight back in court.

If this jus was just some random poor black kid, I’d have an easier time believing it (although the idea of the search warrant for a calculator still send very suspect).

But even a corrupt judge wouldn’t likely do this kind of thing to a lawyer. Because he’d just be inviting scrutiny.

If this happened, and his mom did nothing in response, it seems unlikely the actual cause was as simple as a calculator… But i find it hard to believe it would have happened at all. Not because all judges are perfect, but because i don’t think a judge would approve a search warrant like this over such a totally trivial crime, which could get him in trouble.


#1493

Only poor unknowns, ?

There is no convincing some people that the system is fucked up, so when people abuse it, manipulate it, overreach it’s still this weirdo the police must have had something because there is no way, no way! it could be something else.


#1494

Again, a big difference here is the involvement of a judge.

There are tons of bad, racist cops that act like evil idiots.

But once you involved a judge signing search warrants, it’s different. You aren’t likely to get that with mere knee jerk racism.

The judge is gonna know that he’s serving a warrant against a lawyer… And if he doesn’t, he’s going to be way the hell pissed when he finds out afterwards.


#1495

I’m not sure this is the hill you want to die on, man.


#1496

You should listen to the newest season of Serial.


#1497

Probably right, although i guess we’ll see… I have a feeling we may see more of this kid.


#1498

That’s exactly what I was thinking.


#1499

And be prepared to be depressed.

That said it is fine to be sceptical of individual claims, especially extraordinary ones, but understand the general situation.

Do I know for a fact his claims are true? No. Are his claims, in total, especially galling? Absolutely. Do I disbelieve him? No. Will I act as if his statement is absolute fact? Also no.

A broad general claim like this I put under less scrutiny than one that calls for a specific action, or singles out a specific individual. His does neither. So I am willing to accept it as presented until or unless evidence compelled otherwise.


#1500

Based on his tweets, I think his goal is to let people know that police presence on school grounds can feel like protection for one group and a constant source of terror for others. This might also suggest to schools that maybe throwing officers all over the place to protect kids is not as simple as they think it is. Police officers as a school resources is… complicated.


#1501

Oh absolutely! And for that reason I think it is worth considering his story as presented. Because I’ve seen enough to know that, while I can not verify the factual core of this specific example, the emotional message has merit. That the types of incidents he describes are real, and the consequences he emotes actually happen to some people.

Whether they happened to him specifically is irrelevant. What is important is, when talking of putting an armed police presence in a school, that this type of event will happen to some kids. And that absolutely needs to be considered in the conversation about police in schools.