So it’s just like the Cuban missile crisis, except in the alternative timeline where the US launched a full scale military invasion.
In other words, nothing like the Cuban missile crisis. Nothing even remotely like it since the US had zero plans to station nuclear weapons in Ukraine nor had them literally on the way there with bases already being set up.
Yeah. It’s been awhile now but when I was on a sub, their subs were getting quieter but their sonar was still garbage. Our biggest fear during certain operations was one of them running into us. We never had any indication any of them heard us.
It certainly did. There was a lot of hope for Zelensky, but nothing came out of it. He promised to bring peace to Donbass within a year or resign if he fails. This would mean he had to resign in 2020. Recently, he even started to close opposition media without any due procedure. Go figure.
You wrote
That implies other Russians view things in a different way. Or that all Russians are proponents of Great Russia. Could you please clarify your stance?
Do they need to dominate the government if they can do this without any punishment?
I haven’t tried to use Google translate on the article, but I think it should be pretty easy to so.
Well, there are nuclear bombs in Germany. They were not moved out after the Cold War was over. And there were discussions of moving them to Poland.
I’m not justifying the invasion of Ukraine. I support Russians but not the Russian government.
I’m saying that there are more parties to blame than just Vladimir Putin.
Ok, blue pill then. It was nice chatting to you.
From the article (translated)
“the police opened criminal proceedings on the fact of the attack.”
It doesn’t say they caught anyone, but you are kind of implying that the people who did it were just let go, rather than not yet caught.
Weak. Support your arguments like an adult.
Thought thanks for the “red pill” chuckle. Excellent double meaning here.
Let’s be a little compassionate here people. With family stuck in Ukraine, I am sure @Valambrian has more then enough on his mind then our little bit of Armchair General stuff.
So, give them a break on this topic even if there is disagreement.
Regardless of the situation I have little patience for these kinds of games. Going all “you can’t handle the truth” and them when people say “fire away” and even do them the courtesy of reading the material they offer to immediately go “looks like you can’t handle the truth” at the slightest pushback is a waste of everyone’s time.
Discuss or don’t, Don’t play bullshit games.
Again, keep in mind what your mental state would be if you had family in Ukraine right now.
It’s not that far-fetched. The US was planning a full scale military invasion. There is an excellent series of videos on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEXjoBe5ZdI&list=PLrG5J-K5AYAWbzTXiTzPEFQHLoozkqchz
If a plan is somehow leaked, it’s existence is proven. How do you prove an absence of a plan?
Thanks, @legowarrior, I appreciate the kind words.
My best wishes to any friends and family you have over there. I hope they all make it through all this safely.
My wife escaped from Ukraine to Poland yesterday. I hope the rest of the family will be ok as well.
The notion that the US might invade Cuba was certainly not far fetched. It was totally considered. There was also that whole bay of pigs thing. Still that does not make this anything like the Cuban missile crisis. It’s just a terrible analogy.
The government Ukraine hasn’t exactly been all perfect angels through the years, however none of the problems it has can be solved by a Russian invasion.
And I feel for you position and sorry if I’m harsh, but seriously, don’t play those games.
I think that’s well said. For Cuba to be equivalent, it would have had to be the US pre-emptively invading because we thought that at some point in the future Russia might have brought in missiles. Russia did move in missiles, the US didn’t invade, we used diplomacy to fix Russian near-border aggression.
Honestly any discussion about what Russia is up to right now probably needs to start with what they’ve done recently like Crimea and Georgia. Those are within years or a decade and a half, not fifty years ago in the Cold War.
Sorry to hear that you have family over there. I am interested, what do you think the government should be doing for the defence of Kyiv instead of arming civilians? I can understand that arming civilians has its risks, but if the alternative is having the Russian army in the capital sooner then perhaps your brother-in-law would be scared to go outside anyway.
I hope everyone you have over there makes it through.
Super glad to hear that. My thoughts are with your family in this scary time.
Now I’d call this a weak argument.
Here we agree.
It’s not games. I spent the last few days watching news on multiple channels, and saw manipulations in every media. I though people would be interested in additional perspectives.
Right now? I have no idea. Since 2019? Start talking to the other side. Give diplomacy a chance, as they say.
Sure, let’s talk about Georgia.
Keep in mind that the other side is Putin. Not exactly what I would call an honest broker of any of this.
Putin would be the scorpion, in the story of the Scorpion and the Frog.
Ironic, a Russian fairy tale.
I’m not sure I understand. That’s not an argument. I’m agreeing with one aspect of what you wrote. That one aspect does not support the analogy.
Saying “are you sure you don’t want to take the blue pill” and then immediately going to “looks like you want the blue pill” is indeed playing games. Seriously, there’s no conversation you will ever have on this earth where those statements will do you any good (other than trolling boards). That’s all I’m talking about.
I encourage perspectives. I immediately read the link you posted. I enjoy discussion. I do not enjoy cop outs like the red pill crap.