Over the next ten years. Let’s not compare apples to oranges.
If Trump had to choose between ~ $2 billion per year for ten years in exchange for DACA, or $1.3 billion this year, apparently easily renewable, in exchange for nothing… then given his goals he chose wisely.
Except for the fact that the 20 billion at 2 billion per year would have been a legacy for him and his peeps where this 1.37 billion is now peanuts in a single year.
DACA legislation would have been a legacy for our peeps.
And if this is a win for Democrats, surely we will try to go for a repeat. $1.3 billion over ten years is $13 billion, not peanuts. So his legacy is reduced by a third, and ours is eliminated.
Obviously, for him the calculus is more about keeping the DACA people in limbo or deporting them than it is building a wall.
Well if so then Trump got what he wanted.
We need a Pelosi appreciation day, to give thanks that it’s her in charge of the Dems rather than some leftie.
She’s in a job where you have to be pragmatic, or you’ll accomplish nothing but angry speeches.
For the record I like Pelosi. And I didn’t want to see her replaced. But you can’t win them all, and I don’t see this one as a win.
And many of us disagree with you completely, and see it as a win.
Saying the same thing over and over again in a short span of time doesn’t make it any more or less true for either viewpoint.
Thank you for reminding me that you see it as win. That was helpful.
We are at a time in our history where the people on one side of the aisle are pretty damn evil. It seems to me we have a couple options… one, we dissolve the whole thing and start another Civil War. Two, we negotiate with them to make their evil less evil and continue to work hard to push that evil back under the rock from which it came.
Which do you prefer?
The latter of course. Negotiations are great. But you win some, you lose some. Better luck next time.
What is going to be pretty fascinating is that it looks like Schumer will deliver the votes in the Senate from the Dem side, and Pelosi will deliver the votes in the House from the Dem side.
Republicans look very likely to be far more split on this. And Trump is going to be a reluctant sign-ee. And in the overall perception and court of public opinion, this is going to look like “Democrats made sure we avoided another shutdown.”
It may not be pretty or something every viewpoint can consider a win (magnet is likely to tell us a couple more times it specifically isn’t a win, and then get a li’l cranky when it’s pointed out that he’s doing that a lot, for instance). But in many aspects this is going to bring back memories of Schumer and Pelosi delivering their caucuses in the fall of 2008 during the height of the financial crisis, while Boehner failed to do so. One party is going to look like the ones interested in governing; one party is likely to look like the one beholden to the hidebound ideology of its extremist, ride or die Trump/Hannity/Coulter wing
I’m not sure the conservative base sees this as a win.
It’s the nature of compromise that the zealots on both sides will be unhappy.
I think you grasped my point: you can say that you don’t see it as a win a lot, and you have done so multiple times.
I can say I do see it as a win, and have said so multiple times.
As noted: that doesn’t make either of us more right.
So many undelivered ponies, I guess.
I get that. I don’t expect to change your mind. But I was compelled to point out the inconsistent math in the $1.3 billion < $20 billion comparison, because that is improper regardless of who “won”.
Pelosi pushed this to the limit; as Trigger mentioned above, trying to go for more at this point could have easily backfired.
Magnet, you mention that Ryan was able to get concessions from Obama, but Trump and the GOP are not Obama. The GOP has given up the idea of good governance for decades now; this is a party that sees the destruction of the Federal government as an end goal. Trump is all about humiliation. It’s not enough that he wants a wall, but he’s going to make Mexico pay for it. The GOP base lapped that up. And then when the Democrats took the House, it wasn’t about getting the wall, it was about bullying the Democrats into paying for it.
There was always going to be some kind of fencing. But he wanted a Berlin Wall-style edifice. More importantly, he wanted to bully the Democrats into giving it to him.
Trump is all about never backing down, but any good tactician knows you pick your battles and you pick your ground. He bulldozed his way into a loss.
Careful of her grasp - you’d easily lose 2-3 levels with no saving throw.
I agree. Pelosi was backed into a corner. But to me there is a big difference between, “Sorry guys, but this is the best we could do” and “We won!” You can learn valuable lessons from the former.
I realize that negotiating with the current crop of Republicans is very challenging. But sooner or later we need to figure out a way to do it. We can’t be satisfied with, “Could’ve been worse” or “At least they didn’t get everything they wanted.” Those aren’t wins, they are narrow losses.
And before you ask, no I don’t know how Democrats can solve this problem. They aren’t stupid and I am sure they are doing the best they can. But I don’t think it’s impossible - Republicans don’t have magical powers after all. And Democrats are not actually winning anything until they can solve it.