Valve's definition of Coming Soon

After this post I think you’ve pretty much written yourself off from getting any kind of serious consideration for anything you type on Qt3 from here on out.


Ouch, and that’s coming from Dave Long! :)

Hey, Dave is right. This may be the most ridiculous crap I’ve ever seen Igor post - and that’s saying a lot, considering the source. Who in their right mind thinks it’s fair to compare the mods and bonuses packed into the current release version of a game that came out in 1998? Less than 1 year vs. 7 years? Come on, Igor.

Oh I know. I don’t really think Dave Long is crazy. But, you know, it’s Dave Long! That crazy Nintendo zealot! We used to get together just to shoot him.

If you get that Leo Burnett job, you’ll be a Nintendo zealot too. That’s who does all of the big N’s advertising materials I think. :)


Now I realize DMC and Ricochet were later additions, but when I bought Half-Life GotY it was 7 years ago, seven years ago, back when I was still in grade school, and it came with:

Team Fortress Classic

I think that’s a tad bit better than paying for Gold/Silver for a game that promised much more than it delivered. It’s been almost a year since Half-Life 2 was out, and I haven’t seen much of anything in terms of free content (a couple of levels? big whoop, now give us day of defeat).

Considering Half-Life only came out in fall of 1998, it’s absolutely impossible that you bought the Game of the Year edition seven years ago.

Give it up, man. You made a dumb comment. Just own up to it and move on or stop posting in this thread altogether and make a graceful exit.


Edit: Just to add more fuel to the “You don’t know what you’re talking about” line of reasoning…

Game of the Year Edition shipped with only Team Fortress Classic in 1999. Counter-Strike did not get a boxed release until 2000.

The Platinum Edition, which is likely the one you got if it included what you say it did (which given how far off on the dates you are… who the hell knows by now…) also shipped in 2000.

So you first bought Half-Life at least a year and probably at least two years after it shipped initially, which makes any comparison with Half-Life 2 and its release impossible since Half-Life 2 hasn’t been available for two years yet. In fact it’s not even that close to one year yet.

You are right, I bought the 1999 edition (my box looks like that). You know what, after reading your posts and careful consideration I decided that I was wrong about comparing Half-Life to Half-Life 2. It may end up that VALVe starts shipping Half-Life 2 with other mods as well for all we know, I just hope that’s the case and they release DoDS sometimes this decade.

Cool. Your comparison was a bad one.

It’s hard to say what will happen with this game within a year. A lot of people seem just fine with Counter-Strike and nothing else. We have no idea how many games Valve sold directly to consumers, only the in store sales. The game was definitely successful though.

It’s doubtful that you’ll see a modification as groundbreaking as Counter-Strike on the HL2 engine, but stranger things have happened. To expect that though, is really not fair. Most games don’t get that kind of support from gamers. Desert Combat for Battlefield is probably the only other mod that was so successful it literally helped reshape the multiplayer of the original game.

Also, the kind of mods you’re talking about are coming from Valve and not from a bunch of guys who just like to make mods. That’s a big difference. Everything for Half-Life was done by independent modders. Day of Defeat and the like are now official mods or something. They’re not just labors of love anymore. That’s a huge distinction.


When it takes you six years to make a game, “coming soon” takes on a whole other context. ;)

Compared to the Duke team tho, Valve are pikers at missing dates:

Janurary 1997: Work on DNF started.*

April 1997: Quake 2 engine purchase announced. (they got it in mid-late 1997 before Quake 2 was released). Scott Miller states that he is confident that DNF will be released by mid 1998 and prey in late 1998 making 1998 a bit year for 3DR. He also mentions that his confidence is not misplaced.

August and September 1997: First screenshots in PC gamer (hummer, farmer i think).

May 1998: First DNF E3 video shown. You can see that a lot of work has been done.

Late 1998: 3DR announces switch to Unreal tech. It is expected to take no longer than 6 weeks and 3DRealms says “DNF is a 1999 game.”

Mid 1999: 3DR admits that the engine switch took a lot more time than originally estimated.

Late 1999: 3DR announces upgrade to UT level tech. It is expected to take two weeks. 3DR releases a Christmas card saying that DNF will be released in 2000.

2000: I don’t think anything happened. They released some sexy screenshots in late 1999/early 2000 (for the time). Broussard begins claiming that DNF development did not start until 1998. Inquiring minds wonder how they got so much done before May (E3) 1998.

May 2001: 3DR comes out of nowhere and puts DNF up at E3. They state that DNF will be released in 2001 and the end of the E3 2001 video says “WID in 2001”. Many part of the video bear a clear resemblence to the 1999 screenshots.

October 2001: Broussard posts “sorry guys, it won’t be a 2001 release” on the VE3D forums. “Don’t worry, the last major hurdle is AI.”

Unknown 2001: Broussard states that DNF will definitely be out before Unreal 2.

January 2002: Voodoo Extreme makes a list of top 10 titles to be released in 2002. #1 on that list is Duke Nukem Forever. Someone posts “when will we see something” in the 3DR forums. Broussard responds with “soon”.

June 2002: The “soon” thread gets locked.

Unknown 2002: Broussard states that DNF will definitely be out before DooM 3.

2003: Broussard states that DNF has been “on track since early 2002” and that they haven’t reached the light at the end of the tunnel, but “they finally found it.” He wisps away the years between January 1997 and January 2002 and wishes people would consider DNF’s development as if it started in 2002 (this is a strong hint that DNF was far from complete). Unreal 2 released.

Broussard adopts the “DooM 3 and HL2 will have been in development for 5 and 6 years when they’re finally released – DNF isn’t taking that much longer” belief (notice: his numbers are very inaccurate).

Late 2003/early 2004: Take 2 complains about DNF development and expects it around “late 2005”. “At this point we’re just hoping the team [in garland] will finish the project.”

2004: Broussard states that DNF development has been on track since “late 2002/early 2003”, bumping up his earlier statement in an attempt to fight back release expectations. It is clear, from this behavior, that DNF will not be released this year or next. DooM 3 is released. Half Life 2’s release is anticipated this year.

  • “We’ve actually been working on the game since January.” – Scott Miller, 1997.

Video game systems that have been released in DNF’s development time:

Neo Geo Pocket Color
Gameboy Advance
Playstation 2

Etc, complete list at:

And at least one if not all three of the NEXT next generation machines will be out before Duke4ever.

I generally find DNF bashing tiresome, but I love that timeline --it’s bashing done right. This is my favorite part:

The Voyager 1 spacecraft has travelled approximately 2.5 billion miles since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever.

Heh. I remember DNF being announced for Gamecube before the machine launched.

DNF’s endless delays are what has caused the death of PC gaming as we know it.

I think if they ever do ship it, Duke Nukem Forever will be enormously huge.


If polish makes a good game a great game, DNF is going to rock.

I seem to remember an old phrase about polishing a turd…

We don’t really know if DNF ever reached “good” status or if it ever will.

Yes, but we do know that Duke Nukem 3D was one of the best games of its era. That’s enough for me to go on since the main people in charge of bringing that game to life still own and run the company.


If they’d really been working all these years polishing the game, there might be good reason to think they’ll deliver a classic. Instead, it seems that they’ve restarted the game several times and squandered years of work in the process.

The thing thats such a killer tho, is if the 2001 video is ANY indication (and yes, I know a presentation can severely stretch the truth) massive amounts of work HAD been done to get duke to those points. I dont care how bad it is, when it comes out I will be first in line to buy it, but I can still be amused at what has been accomplished while that team labors on and on. You have to admire the tenacity.