Actual “competitive” MP for this is such a non-starter. I know a lot of devs want MP tourneys built on their game for the added exposure, but some games just aren’t going to be a big hit with the MP crowd and this I feel is one of those. This game with some casual buddy pickup games could be fun, but it will never seriously make the MP sports scene.
RPS review pretty much nails it I think. He noted the same faster pace that I was feeling too and it makes sense that it would be for the multiplayer aspect, which like Alec, isn’t what I was really looking for.
I like the thought of playing a Dungeon Keeper experience in multiplayer but, like in a lot of cases, that means something very different to me than it seems to for a lot of developers. It seems like “multiplayer” translates into “competitive multiplayer with random strangers” and that seems like a pretty poor fit for this kind of game. I think it’d be pretty fun to play co-op against the do-gooders, though. Is something like that possible?
I just don’t get the emphasis on multiplayer in a game design that has, since DK1, encouraged nothing but building up the biggest zerg you can and tossing it at the other keepers.
I had high hopes for this game. Hopefully in a few months it will be in much better shape and worth buying.
I think WftO is making that aspect of the game a lot more tactical with multiple rally points/flags and warbands. Not to mention, there’s the DK2 stun on drop and a mana cost for doing that too.
I might be overlooking something here, but I can only see multiplayer informing the overall design as a good thing if it means there are more interesting (and legitimate) decisions to be made at various junctures as you progress. I’m not even convinced that people would have noticed the focus if the devs hadn’t said anything about it!
I used to play DK2 multiplayer with my brother and we loved it. The only problem was all the crashing which eventually stopped us playing any further. Sad face. I think we all know someone who enjoys DK so multiplayer in this instance seems like a good feature to have for those friendly competitive games. I know competitive play can be Serious Business but it doesn’t have to be.
Agreed! A co-op skirmish mode would be fun, particularly one based on their planned survival mode.
All I know is that I played DK2 for the umpteenth time last night, and on one of the later levels I was informed by Mr. Ridings: “You have over ten mistresses in your dungeon. There’s a word for keepers like you.”
I think a lot of us, especially the folks who have been in one this since the early, early stages, are now realizing two things about WtfO:
- The folks at Subterranean have a different endgame for WtfO than what most of us expected;
- They may not have the design chops to carry it off. It’s kind of unfair to compare a indie, ad hoc studio of DK2 fans against the juggernaut of talent that was Bullfrog circa mid-late 90’s, but there you go. It’s going to take a while before WtfO is really beaten into shape.
Heheh, that’s brillliant. I always liked ‘Your dungeon requires central heating’, or something to that effect.
I haven’t played DK2 in a long time but having played the original DK recently I can safely say that, as much as I adored the humour and personality and attention to detail throughout the game, there were plenty of things that frustrated me. I think you mentioned the laid back pace of DK2, but DK1 was downright blistering at times. Some levels were fast fought wars of attrition and incredibly punishing if you weren’t juggling all manner of things.
I wanted to keep playing DK1 but just grew tired of my imps and minions wandering into enemy territory and dying, taking enemy territory and dying, getting into fights and dying, walking into traps that were now visible and dying, or casting spells individually on creatures (friend or foe), or playing the “Who can drop the most high level minions the fastest” game. Bullfrog were certainly pioneers, and there’s no doubting how charming the game is but if WftO can address any or all of these issues then I think that’s improvement enough for me, even if some of that Bullfrog polish and spark is lost along the way. I really hope they can keep buffing this thing until it gleams because, damn, if we don’t need a decent do-badder again.
Anyway, I think I’ll be picking this up before May 2nd to bag the future DLC.
[QUOTE=geggis;3753083I wanted to keep playing DK1 but just grew tired of my imps and minions wandering into enemy territory and dying, taking enemy territory and dying, getting into fights and dying, walking into traps that were now visible and dying, or casting spells individually on creatures (friend or foe)…[/QUOTE]
I bought it on GOG last year and played it a bunch, and remembered this same thing - hated my monsters disobeying my wishes.
Build doors between your area and the enemy’s and lock them! Better yet, build SECRET doors and lock them! WftO has the imp exclusion flag but you’re really better off with doors. One of the most important things I learned to win DK was that keeping your critters on a leash is vital in many cases. Lock them in. Let a single imp go exploring. Individually dump melee monsters in front of a door, then haul them back as soon as you break it. You know, micro. DK tricks you in to thinking that micro isn’t important, but it’s very important.
(Also vital: the best way to take out traps was with possessing skeletons.)
Imp micro can be extremely important in DK, since they will gleefully kite murder to where you don’t want it.
Yeah, I was doing a lot of that; being a control freak I was door crazy. It was just on the more open levels or towards the end when you had to start pushing into the enemy’s territory. Things often got very messy. That said, I can’t stand micro-management, at least not in real-time, especially when mixed in with other tasks.
The skeleton trap tip is one I haven’t heard of though. I used to possess high HP creatures to trigger traps then heal them, never thought to use a skeleton. They don’t get hurt them then?
One of my favourite tactics was to convert enemy keepers’ imps so I would have more to work with, but they would end up spending vast sums to summon more to keep their dungeon ticking over. Eventually they’d be broke.
The skeleton trap tip is one I haven’t heard of though. I used to possess high HP creatures to trigger traps then heal them, never thought to use a skeleton. They don’t get hurt them then?
Some traps don’t hurt skeletons. I’m talking more about the traps you have found, though. For example, those areas where imps are constantly walking into a death zone of fireballs and lightning traps. Possess a skeleton, and then manually destroy those traps. You can dodge those fireballs etc. while whacking at the trap; the AI can’t. I’ve cleared entire death zones using one or two skeletons. I use skeletons because they do decent melee damage, can take a quite of bit of trap damage, are fairly mobile, and, best of all, are eminently expendable.
I won’t let creatures whack on traps on their own. I always possess a critter to take them out, since I do a far better job.
I also drop skeletons around imps who are clearing enemy territory and run into enemy imps. The skeletons deal with the enemy imps to allow my imps to do their jobs. You know: micro.
Wishlisted WftO and re-installed DK. Like I don’t have a huge backlog.
I am very intrested in this game, however, from all reports this game isn’t finished yet. I think Ill wait a month or two and see if the devs really finish it. I also do not like the sales tactic of “Buy now and get the first DLC for free” when the game isn’t even done yet.
[…] a portion of the team voluntarily chose to go without pay for the last two months of development. This period especially was very difficult for us to stomach but it had allowed us to push the game into the best state we could manage without risking us going under.
We pushed ourselves extremely hard, often working 18, 24 or 48 hour shifts, devoting our lives to the game where we could but still that lead us to a situation we weren’t content with, yet still backed into a corner.
They needed the money, plain and simple. If they’d tried to ship it any later they’d have sunk. The early adopters have given them the cash flow they need to continue supporting it and get it to the standard they wanted, and the standard players expect. 21 patches in 12 days isn’t bad going!
I couldn’t resist picking it up, especially with the early-adopter DLC (damn that sales tactic!), but I’ve got to say, I think they’ve done an incredible job given that a) they’re trying to remake and build on a much loved classic without treading on the IP’s feet, and b) it’s their first game. I think it’s got bags of personality and I’ve been laughing out loud quite a lot – way more than I expected to. I’ve not really encountered any nasty bugs other than performance dips and minor oddities. The UI can be a bit fiddly to use without hotkeys but it’s not been too bad. All in all, I’m very happy with my purchase and can’t wait to see it improve and expand. Looking forward to the survival/skirmish and multiplayer modes, as well as more campaign missions.
Oh, and some of the voice work has been a bit lacking but, generally speaking, I think it’s been solid and really damn amusing in places, particularly the stereotypically Scottish dwarves or Lord O’Theland early on. Some of the dwarves’ cries cracked me up. The cultists I don’t have any issues with.
I played through level 5 and uninstalled. It will be a great game someday (although I find the design sprawls more than it should) but that time is not soon.
I feel for the devs, but as a consumer, all I really care about is that the game is unfinished.
I uninstalled it as well. They might whip this into shape someday, but they’re going to have a hard time overcoming the launch reputation.
Edit: Double post removed.
It’s amazing how well the original DK has held up. I don’t even mind the pixelicious graphics. I’ll be able to play it and Deeper Dungeons for a while yet. Yall let me know when WftO is fully baked.
A salamander has left your dungeon.