First off, credit @Gordon_Cameron for the idea.
In this thread we will be putting celebrity/politician apologies (or non-apologies) up for judgement by the only people on the planet qualified to make such value-decisions – the denizens of the Qt3 P&R forum.
Post a written, Tweeted, or YouTubed apology from some famous person along with a short description (or link) of the humiliating accusation that they are groveling for. Then open up the floor for discussion.
First out of the gate: Louis CK’s statement regarding masturbating in front of a bunch of women.
I’m going to give it an 8.
Pros: He doesn’t try and excuse himself or challenge any aspect of the accusations. Instead he explains why what he did was terrible and then goes further by pointing out all the downstream damage that his actions have causes.
Cons: He doesn’t ever actually apologize.
I’d be willing to bet money his legal team cut any apology right out of this statement.
The lack of an apology makes it a 7 for me. For whatever reason.
On some level, admitting exactly what he did and ask if it’s effects, implicitly is an apology.
His response is way better than the usual empty apology that refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing.
I’d be willing to bet money he didn’t run that past a legal team. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that’s how he operates.
Additionally, I don’t think it’s fair to label it an apology and then criticize it for not being one. It is what it is… a confession and a statement of regret.
His apology should first be to those five women, and perhaps additional women, if any. The article stated that he had done some of that apologizing in the past which already differentiates him from other abusers. Now that this has blown up publicly, even more apologizing and making amends with those victims is in order. Then of course his family. After that, friends and professional relationships. After all that is sorted, maybe he should apologize to his fans or maybe not. I don’t know.
I mean, fuck, it’s not like there’s a huge chasm between his vulgar art and these vulgar acts. Unlike, say, Bill Cosby.
Earlier today I was thinking about his involvement with the show Better Things. If you haven’t seen it, it’s a raw and funny and illuminating show very much in the style of Louie but it does for women and motherhood what Louie did for men and fatherhood. Most of the credit for that goes to Pamela Adlon but the show wouldn’t exist without Louis. He created the template and co-writes the series.
I’ve been watching season 1 with my wife and teenage daughter and I see how valuable it is for both of them to watch an honest portrait of the mother/daughter dynamic. An episode about the teenage girl’s fears of the future really resonated with my daughter. So I don’t think of this show as mere entertainment, it helps me with parenting. Much of Louis CK’s work has been that valuable to me for close to a decade now.
I’m not saying any of this makes up for what he did. But it does factor into the moral equation that I’m processing. I never thought Harvey Weinstein was a good person but now I know he’s rotten. I used to think Bill Cosby and Kevin Spacey were good people but now I don’t. I do still think Louis CK is a good person. I suspect he’ll continue to address this ugliness publicly in a positive and instructive way.
Wait what? Are you suggesting that saying something and doing something are even remotely the same?
Also, there are limitations on how far back you can go with cases like this. He might not have any legal fears at all. Heck does Weinstein even have that. So far his punishment or consequence is completely outside the legal realms, right? It’s just people pulling back and not wanting to touch that scumbag.
I cannot accept his apology because he used “who’s” instead of “whose”.
Length: 8
I feel that the length of the piece was appropriate given the severity of the crime.
Remorse: 6
The apologizer says many of the right things, but fails to directly apologize to the victims which really limits the score he can achieve in this category.
Humility: 3
Given the number of times that he remarks on how people admired him, the apologizer really stumbles in the humility category.
Grammar: 6
There are many times in which the apologizer gets the grammar right, but as all reviwers know it is only when the grammar of a piece is poor that the reader thinks of it at all. He/she is apparently ignorant of the existence of the word ‘whose’ and its use in civilized English.
Structure: 4
The paragraphs of the piece are of wildly varying length. Coherent thought arcs are often interspersed between paragraphs, and at times the piece backtracks unnecessarily.
Re-readability: 7
This is a piece I feel that I could read again in six months.
Total Score: 7.4 on a 7-9 scale.
That’s way too much work, Tim. But I’ll agree that structure bothered me so I’ll deduct 1/2 point for an otherwise very good apology and 1 point for not offering any type of tangible action (donation to appropriate charity, personal apology to his victims) and give it 7.5.
Next up, the one and only Harvey Weinstein.
I came of age in the 60’s and 70’s, when all the rules about behavior and workplaces
were different. That was the culture then.I have since learned it’s not an excuse, in the office - or out of it. To anyone.
I realized some time ago that I needed to be a better person and my interactions with
the people I work with have changed.I appreciate the way I’ve behaved with colleagues in the past has caused a lot of pain,
and I sincerely apologize for it.Though I’m trying to do better, I know I have a long way to go. That is my commitment.
My journey now will be to learn about myself and conquer my demons. Over the last
year I’ve asked Lisa Bloom to tutor me and she’s put together a team of people. I’ve
brought on therapists and I plan to take a leave of absence from my company and to
deal with this issue head on. I so respect all women and regret what happened. I hope
that my actions will speak louder than words and that one day we will all be able to earn
their trust and sit down together with Lisa to learn more. Jay Z wrote in 4:44 “I’m not
the man I thought I was and I better be that man for my children.” The same is true for
me. I want a second chance in the community but I know I’ve got work to do to earn it. I
have goals that are now priorities. Trust me, this isn’t an overnight process. I’ve been
trying to do this for 10 years and this is a wake-up call. I cannot be more remorseful
about the people I hurt and I plan to do right by all of them.I am going to need a place to channel that anger so I’ve decided that I’m going to give
the NRA my full attention. I hope Wayne LaPierre will enjoy his retirement party. I’m
going to do it at the same place I had my Bar Mitzvah. I’m making a movie about our
President, perhaps we can make it a joint retirement party. One year ago, I began
organizing a $5 million foundation to give scholarships to women directors at USC.
While this might seem coincidental, it has been in the works for a year. It will be named
after my mom and I won’t disappoint her.
As apologies go I think it is a 4, but I have to give him extra credit for randomly including Wayne LaPierre into the apology, and adding to the entertainment value. So final score for me is 5. or 6.8 on the 7-9 scale
“Back in my day rape was fine, I’ve recently learned that people don’t accept that excuse anymore”
I’m a little weirded out by him using a Jay Z line where a right-wing apology would have had a bible verse. He should have picked something less contemporary.
But the big problem is him talking about what he’s going to do to the NRA. He shouldn’t be doing anything. In Korea, celebrities who have a scandal are expected to lay low for 1-2 years and reflect on their misdeeds. If they get caught working during that time, everyone jumps all over them for being insincere. Weinstein should have just said he’s going into rapist rehab and left it at that.
On a 7-9 scale, I’d give this a 6.2.
If you don’t actually apologize in your apology you fail as far as I’m concerned.
Weinstein’s is a 3 at best.
“Being all rapey is just how I was raised! Everyone back in the 60s and 70s raped everyone else pretty much every day! Just ask your folks – they know!”
“Oh, and hey, just let all my creepy crap slide because I’m going to go after the NRA! 'Cause you know who isn’t a rapist but is probably worse in the eyes of many Liberals? Wayne LaPierre!”
Ugh.
I don’t expect any better from Weinstein, he’s a miserable human being. Yet the ‘pro Hollywood’ dems aren’t trying to push him for a Senator position, for some mysterious reason.
Yeah non-apologies are not apologies. They’re just words thrown to the world inn the hopes that some people will excuse their behavior and maybe the whole thing will go away. I’m pretty sure even in the 60’s and 70’s, rape was never okay, and what has he been doing the past 30 years besides playing with guns?
I completely agree with you on Better Things - it’s really pitch perfect on the mother daughter relationship, and so very funny while doing it.
As for the letter - it’s honest and seems to show some acceptance of responsibility and the potential for growth and betterment. That’s a heck of a lot better than most such letters. Still wasn’t an ok thing to do in any way, of course, but I am not writing him off as a fundamentally flawed person like the others.
I understand this distinction in the context of something like, “I’m sorry you were offended.” That’s a classic dodge and a bullshit move.
If you’re referring to Louis CK’s statement, I don’t think that’s a valid criticism. It’s more of a false assumption. The statement isn’t an apology, it’s a confession and a statement of regret.
As for my other comment you quoted, I just mean that Louis has made countless references over the years to his perverted inclinations, self-destructive behaviors, and unhealthy, conflicted relationship with masturbation. He even did episodes of his show on the subject. So it isn’t much of a leap from knowing the man to learning what he did. It doesn’t change what he did but it does factor into my thought process about the reaction and the aftermath.
Where’s Bill O’ Reilly’s apology, or Trump’s apology, Roger Ailes? Roy Moore, Dennis Hastert, Jerry Sandusky, George Ormond?
Seems like all these people just ignore or pay it away, never apologize and continue to be horrible and horrific people.