3664

Living our lives in fear of what the shitty humans who vote Republican will think of what we say isn’t a productive use of anyone’s time. These people are a lost cause and unworthy of anyone’s concern. There’s work to be done.

3665

Sure, i can see that as making it different. But for folks out in the sticks… This is basically the kind of place you guys came to. There are something like 2 million acres of wilderness in central Pennsylvania that are open to hunting, so if you live out here, you’re never more than 15 minutes from State hunting grounds, and lots of folks live on decent chunks of land that they just hunt on. Land in the middle of nowhere doesn’t really cost much.

For the actual farmers, they can actually just hunt deer on their land as under a red tag for most of the year, as much as they want, in order to protect crops.

The other thing is that there are bazillions of deer here, since we killed all the wolves.

3666

The cost of field and stream activities just keeps going up, and not just license and tags and campgrounds or tricked out trucks but it’s culture. It’s a hobby and a family thing and there’s nothing wrong with it. It has nothing to do with handguns though, and you don’t need 50 guns in the basement to go hunting.

3667

Dude, most of these people are relatively poor folks who aren’t crazy racists and crap. Hell, a bunch of them voted for Democrats for years, depending on where you are in the state.

They’s not as lot of utility in going out of your way to make them your enemy.

3668

It’s not some Democrats saying they’d like to ban guns that stokes the fear. It’s Fox News and the NRA and Rush Limbaugh and the other alt-right Talking Heads that stoke the fear.

When Sandy Hook happens it’s not the Democrats who create the fear, it’s the right-wing crazies talking about false flags, actors, how it was a fake, how Soros paid for it, etc., that do the damage. Not Democrats calling for restrictions.

3669

Why are we even talking about hunting? Gun policy is a spectrum, and getting to the point where you’re even taking all of the non-automatic rifles from hunters is on one end. Take Australia for instance, it’s gun control restrictions are tight but not the tightest in the world. Gun licenses aren’t easy to get, but if you’re from a rural area and you participate in culls or the recreational hunting of pests (which are plentiful) then it’s much easier to get one.

It’s not a 0 1 choice and the right in the U.S. only present it as such for political gain.

3670

What I’m arguing is that when it comes to controlling handguns, who cares how many people hunt, because people don’t hunt with handguns or assault rifles. So, you know, who cares how many people people hunt, because people don’t hunt with handguns or assault rifles? Over to you.

Yes, that was the point. Welcome to the actual discussion.

3671

It’s also seen as nefarious and undemocratic. Instead of worrying how many people are being killed every year by guns, gun supporters see any attempt to restrict gun ownership as tantamount to literally rounding them up and killing them in gulags. So for them one step back really is death, and they see it almost as their patriotic duty to spread and expand gun culture and gun ownership at every possible turn.

3672

I admit that the latter sounds attractive, but I’ll just stick with some attempts to restrict gun ownership.

3673

Well their whole idea of social compact is that of the frontier farmer, living far from civilization and government, “on their own” dependent only on themselves. They see no reason they owe society anything and at least say they expect nothing from society.

They’re not bothered by gun death because it’s not their problem. There’s no “overall” or average, or unintended consequences. Every decision every individual makes begins and ends with themselves. What America means to them, in essence, is the freedom to do whatever you want, whenever you want, with the most minimal government oversight possible.

Of course, oftentimes they live in states with roads and schools falling apart. Somehow the dots here are never connected…

3674

My dad went deer hunting with a handgun, a .357 magnum iirc. He got one, too. Tasty venison.

Anyways, although it definitely protects ownership of assault rifles I’m not 100% convinced the 2nd amendment protects ownership of handguns. I’m mostly convinced it does because I don’t think the authors intended to exclude one handed weapons but I see room for debate on that point.

3675

One could also say: oftentimes they live in states with roads and schools. Somehow the dots here are never connected…

3676

My wife’s uncle hunts pretty regularly with a handgun. He alternates between a .41 for deer and a shotgun for duck.

3677

Since most murders/killings are committed by people who are known to the victim maybe it would be best if people never knew anybody. That would save the most lives.

3678

The democratic tickets campaign motto for 2020. :)

3679

As an introvert, I wholeheartedly endorse this proposal.

3680

They often think they pay enough and the government is wasting the money on stuff or on salaries.

They have no real understanding of how much anything costs or how long something takes, so they automatically assume they paid too much and that the government is wasting money. God forbid that people get paid a living wage, but then again, these same people believe that working in a restaurant or store should never make enough to survive because being poor is there own fault.

3681

Nah, that’s the rationale of the anti-vaxxers. I haven’t met a person yet who loves Trump, Jesus and thinks we should lower taxes, but also hates guns, and i’m as certain care to make myself that the Venn overlap with these many groups is significant. Although obviously there are going to be exceptions. Self reliance, distrust of government, dislike of taxes and government run programs, and love of guns, all go together, even if it’s not 1:1.

Look, i live on top of a pile of guns. I just went to a range a couple weeks ago to sight in my “toy” guns. When in Rome and all that. I’ve grown up with guns all my life, been hunting all sorts of stuff, though i don’t care too much for it now (mainly, tbh, i don’t like the taste of most game, and i feel bad whenever i shoot something).

In a sane world where mass gun violence is terrifying the country, causing all school children and college students to practice drills to evade shooters as if in a war zone, both sides would meet in the middle and hammer out a solution for the good of the country. But instead guns rights activists have as their guiding principle an institutional paranoia where even a single additional restriction on gun ownership is the first step into fascism. Their position is antisocial because gun ownership is antisocial, premised on defending yourself from society, either its people or its government.

This is just another example in a long tradition of conservative thought in United States in which, when the winds of social change make a previously acceptable behavior unacceptable, conservatives tend to go as far as possible in defense of the status quo.

This is fundamentally what Dred Scott was about and it’s not surprising this was happening just a few years before the civil war. Pro slavery advocates felt the winds of change and instead of pulling back, pushed harder than ever and defied those winds. Likewise rather than meet in the middle many gun advocates go for the wildest extreme. Like guilty consciousess, every mass shooting causes a flurry of gun purchases and conspiracy theories. “This time” the adults ie, the government, will take our guns, for sure. Just like Republicans today are surfing on a wild wave, unwilling to get off to defend the institutions, daring society to stop them, willing to go as far and as long as the wave will carry them, to whatever ends they come.

3682

I got all I needed of guns during 5 years in the infantry. If I never have to clean another one again - especially an assault rifle - it will be too soon.

3683

Wow, I have never heard of this. I mean, I know bupkis about hunting, but why would he hunt with a handgun? To make it more challenging? Because he doesn’t own a rifle? And is this weird to other people who hunt? I mean, are other hunters making fun of him?

-Tom