Neo Nazis and the Alt Right


#2385

Honest question, what did you think i was saying?


#2386

No it’s not. Not condemning Nazis has nothing to do with Social Media. Nazism and the destruction and murder that it causes happened long before Social Media. The fact you are equating the two is ridiculous. Nazis were already judged. It’s not new, and the new group of dangerous wannabes are no different. Where Social Media might go wrong is applying labels to the wrong people, but the widespread condemnation of Nazis… nothing wrong with that.


#2387

Are these the Tweets you’re referring to?


#2388

It actually is. Nazism is so wrong that it doesn’t actually need to be stated, like (PBUH) is in devout followers of Islam when writing, that it’s bad.

Nazism [the philosophy we abhor], was founded in Germany. Nazism [the philosophy we abhor] was the guiding political principle of Germany in the 1930s and 1940s.

We live in a time where, for some reason, everything has to be explicit, where nothing can be assumed. Who would genuinely be arguing, from a national paper, that these philosophies are acceptable?


#2389

It can never be stated enough. I don’t know what sort of unwritten rule you think we have, but you cannot assume that history writes itself. Have you been looking around. No,Nazism is bad is not implied. We have actual Nazis parading around in our streets, beating up and killing people under the actual Nazis flag.


#2390

Yeah. This. It seems like it should be obvious by now, but there are real people walking the street unconcerned that they are Nazis. This isn’t normal and hasn’t been seen for a very long time. I think it’s doubly important that it be smashed with impunity because clearly a number of people don’t seem to see a problem with it?


#2391

I think the normalization of Nazis is right on point. This is normal now in America. If you can’t accept it, you can’t fight it. It’s fucking horrifying. That story should scare the shit out of you if you’re not an evil person.


#2392

White supremacists are normal ass white people and it’s been that way in America since 1776.

The most effective way of normalizing Nazis is to tell all white people that they’re already Nazis whether they like it or not.


#2393

I think what they’re trying to say with that statement is the Nazis are not all basement dwellers in their mom’s garage. Some of them have jobs, sit next to you, smile and work with you all while wishing they could stab you in the back and kill you so they can have their made up white’s only country back… which they never really had in the first place. Those people are not normal… but they have lives that might somewhat resemble normal. There’s a difference.


#2394

I know exactly what they’re saying. They’re saying that you get to assume other white people are “normal” and thus Nazis unless they self-flagellate 5 times a day and say the right magic words to prove they’re the good guys. It’s all about white people trying to create an in-group to exclude other white people. You can’t be too shocked when some of the people who get excluded turn out to be evil and decide they really will be Nazis.


#2395

That’s not what they’re saying. That’s what you’re saying.

And I promise you, if someone didn’t get to be part of the “in” crowd and decided to show everyone how cool they really are by turning to worship a group that murdered men, women and children in gas chambers… I will always be shocked.

Murder is not the answer to I’m not popular. Most of us learn that in high school if not earlier.


#2396

This past weekend, the New York Times published a profile of an American Nazi that rightly stirred up a major backlash. The article, which dwells at length on the apparent normality of Tony Hovater, its subject, casts a revealing light on U.S. intellectual elites, who persist in underplaying the existential crisis facing the American republic. Amid increasing neo-fascist mobilization, and during the tenure of a president who routinely peddles far-right talking points and policies and equivocates on condemning white supremacists, the Times has produced a soft-focus profile of one of the founding members of the country’s leading neo-Nazi groups.

In other words, one of America’s papers of record, whose writers and editors routinely interact with the most powerful people in the world, has published an article that treats the specter of far-right violence, an increasingly present reality for millions of immigrants and people of color in the United States, as just another voice in the marketplace of ideas. It is as though fascism, the 20th century’s most murderous ideology, has become an obscure, little-understood footnote in history.


#2397

uh

if you have to deny being a nazi 5x/day, maybe a liberal conspiracy isn’t the problem


#2398

That’s the one I believe.

That it’s a mystery why people are suddenly Nazis and what made them that way as near as I can tell.
Only… they’ve always been there. Only now they get good press because we don’t want to call them out on it because that would be rude and presumptuous or something. This dude is more Nazi than David Duke and people like Reagan had no issue calling him out on it and didn’t bother wasting time trying to figure out why David was a worthless piece of shit. He just called him a piece of shit.


#2399

#2400

It’s not a mystery. People get sold/sell hate enough to get people riled up enough to hate.

The reason it’s really cropping up now in America is because RW media has been pushing hate propaganda for decades and now we have a President elected based upon hate (hate of muslims/liberals/Hillary/etc.).

This is no freaking mystery. The mystery is why more people aren’t denouncing it and voting/speaking out against hate rather than for it. So called christians in the evangelical movement (mostly founded out of the Southern Baptists anti-negro stance) are the ones who most need to do this, IMHO.


#2401

Most of us are mostly passive. I post here, but not elsewhere. Comment threads in most places are just people angry with one another and not really a place for reasoned discourse.

I think some of it is our political system. With two parties, one wins and the other loses, so there is no middle ground. So the commentary reflects that. Don’t concede a point or even acknowledge an understanding of that point of view. Ignore and attack. Losing 52-48 might as well be losing 100-0.

So now we have one party doing the nudge-nudge, wink-wink with the alt-right. They don’t want to reject them. They want those votes. After all, better to give a furtive embrace to the Nazis and win than to denounce them and lose.


#2402

Strangely, people (e.g. Jeff Sharlet) who have been writing about neo-nazism in the USA for decades are highlighting that contemporary neo-nazism is attracting the kinds of people who would have traditionally been left/liberal-leaning.

Of course, it’s far easier and simpler to just say “Nothing has changed. Nothing ever changes. Except people don’t repeat the daily catechism of “Nazi’s are evil”, so more people are openly Nazi’s now”.

You know, you shouldn’t be so obviously proud of something so monumentally dumb.

This quote is going to go way past you because of course it will, but I’ll try nonetheless:

Apparently these people were always Nazis. Despite not being in the Nazi party. Despite being born and having their formative years long before Nazism/Fascism were coherent ideologies. They were always Nazis but enough people didn’t repeat their daily catechisms so they felt like it was ok to do truly evil things.

It is absolutely imperative to understand why people are increasingly turning to an ideology that has no apparent positives beyond a sense of belonging, and that is mired in 70 years of universal and repeated condemnation of everything it stands for.


#2403

The other factor is the internet. One of its greatest strengths is building and enabling communities from all over the globe. One of its greatest flaws is building and enabling communities of hate from all over the globe.


#2404

I agree. I worry that it’s human nature at its worst, but it’s still human nature. We may have this capability for hate and destruction inimical to us. I don’t think it’s just the last 70 years.

When I think of humans, there have been mass killings dating back to at least the Romans. Even in the US we rounded up and imprisoned citizens during WW2 due to nothing other than their ancestry. There’s the butchery in Rwanda and Cambodia. Stalin and Mao. They’ve found bones in prehistory sites in Europe with evidence of cannabilism – our ancestors were a bunch of Jeffrey Dahmers!

It seems like humans are very capable of identifying with a group and then being complicit in carrying out that group’s objectives, however evil. I think it’s important to study it and understand it, but I’m a bit pessimistic that a better understanding will result in change. We have a better understanding of disease and the benefits of vaccines, but look at the anti-vaxxers. It’s crazy. Makes me sad.